Son asked for advice - what would you advise him?

[SallyMcCarthy]

My 21-year-old son and his gf have been together 3 years. In Feb 23, they split up for a few months after both treating each other badly. Then in summer 2023 they got back together, committed to making it work, and have been happy together ever since. My husband and I welcomed the gf back into our life instantly and unconditionally. From our point of view, whatever had gone wrong between them and then been sorted out was entirely their business. All we needed to know was that our son had now decided he wanted to be with her again. It was up to him! Since he now wants her in his life, she’s of course going to be part of ours.

Her dad took a different approach, however: he told her that it wasn’t good enough that she and my son had apologised to each other, sorted it out and got back together. He said he wouldn’t allow my son back at his dinner table until my son had apologised to him for the way he had treated his daughter.

My son, thinking this man was unreasonable, and being unwilling to pander to such interference and boundary violation, didn’t apologise to his girlfriend’s dad, and as a result has been ostracised by her family ever since. So, my son and his girlfriend have been hanging out with our family a lot. She’s been treated like a member of our family - allowed to stay and eat with us all the time, taken out for meals, taken on holidays… we’ve all just accepted that this is how it’s going to be - our family being nice to her while hers is horrible to my son.

However… a problem has now arisen. My son was planning to treat her to an amazing holiday abroad, which he was going to pay for and was happy to pay for. Then, just as he was about to book it, he found out that she was going on holiday with her family for a week later in the summer - and that her brother and sister’s respective girlfriends and boyfriends were invited on this holiday. His girlfriend also blamed him for the fact that he wasn’t invited and said to him, ‘It’s your fault you’re not invited - why can’t you just apologise to my dad like he’s wanted you to since Feb 2023?’

My son told me last night that he’s now feeling much less keen to treat his girlfriend to this holiday, for two reasons:

1. she seems to think he is entirely responsible for the continuing problem between him and her family, rather than realising her dad is the unreasonable one - and he’s hurt that she hasn’t in any way stuck up for him to her dad or advocated for him - instead she’s blaming this long-standing issue totally on my son.

2. he no longer feels comfortable that he, and our family, are treating her so nicely and treating her to all this stuff, and she’s happily accepting all of it while also allowing her family to exclude my son and being willing to go on holiday with them while they exclude him, and blaming it all on him.

I think it is totally reasonable of him to have qualms about treating her to a holiday given that she’s not, as he sees it, sticking up for him to her dad? But am I being unreasonable?

OP says gf cheated on ds for a few weeks.

He should finish with her and have a holiday on his own. Both the father r and gf sound somewhat controlling

I think they should agree to disagree and move on. By which I mean independently not together. Your son will meet someone else who will be a better fit for your shared values. I think the Dad as an adult so to speak should have had a clear the air conversation in 2033 but it doesn't seem he's emotionally intelligent enough to handle that. I would ask your son what advice he would give a friend in the same situation. It's possible to spend a very long time in a toxic relationship, but if you're lucky eventually you leave. M58 for reference only. Good luck.

The one bit of advice I will give my children when they’re a bit older is only settle down with someone who had a happy childhood and good parenting role models. I say this as someone who probably had neither and married somebody who also had baggage. Most people fail to overcome their childhood trauma and pass it on to the next generation. You don’t want him having children with her in years to come.

Stop inviting her round. Advise son take a step back. Take on some other interests- sports- other friends.
An expensive holiday won't create harmony or fix this.

I feel OP is minimising her ds's actions , there must be a reason why op and her ds are bending over backwards to please this girl , and the dad is demanding an apology. I find it hard to believe its just because OP and her DS have such loving hearts and the dad is an alcoholic. We need to hear the girl's dad's side of the story 😂

I couldn't decide as I thought there would b emore to the story until you mentioned Alcoholic father. He sounds abusive.

Your Son can do better for sure.

Also she does seem a bit take take take. So they should go 50/50 on things if they continue.

I'd be slightly wary of giving my son actual advice. Support yes.. letting him voice his own concerns yes, asking questions for him to think about the issue yes. But actual... leave her... I think you have to say to him he has to make his own mind up about it because he's the only one that knows the full situation and whilst advice is helpful, but he has to know its entirely his decision and not at your urging one way or another, with no future recriminations. Because its part of being an adult. But then so is recognising a no win situation.

There is nothing worse than having to live with overbearing in laws, causing unnecessary drama and getting little back up from partner. In this case, its zero back up. And that's a question for him to ask her. The situation seems so unequal.
The Dad sounds like a self important power tripping idiot. and I doubt very much that your son's apology will make any difference to how he treats your son. He probably wants an official in person apology so he has an excuse to have go at him. And he's the older, more experienced adult. So that's a question to ask your son. Do you think an apology to the Dad will change how he treats you? Or for him to ask the GF. I'd also be asking him how GF responds to trying to discuss and resolve situations in general, given the examples she's been given by the Dad. If she's going along with this because he scares her.. she needs therapy. Because by now, the difference in the way the two families treat their children should really have become apparent to her.

The GF is co-operating with the dad and her family in excluding your son.. And her remark that none of this would be happening if you'd only apologied in early 2023 really sums up her attitude. She blames your son for this.

Its quite disloyal for her not to have his back. Ask your son What would a wedding be like? ignoring the bride groom ( I've had a relative who did make a public show of ignoring the Bride at her wedding so it does happen and its bloody miserable for anyone involved) He would for sure expect your son to ask him for her hand, and take great pleasure in refusing. Christmases, birthdays, etc. How would the two of them navigate a future melded life together if he's excluded all the time?

Another thought. In families like this.. is his GF a bit of an underdog? Lower in the family pecking order? Could she be subconsciously relieved that another person is getting the blame as it takes the heat off her?

Another good question for him.
"Life is hard enough. Who the hell needs all this crap?"

If he were my son I would say the relationship a has run its course. Whether or not your son should have apologised to his gf’s father or not, her stating that it is your sons fault means they’re not a united front.

For all you know she has told her parents something different when away from your son, you just don’t know and now that doubt is there there’s no going back.

No no no get your son away from gf
once a cheater always a cheater

With respect of this. Your son is aware that his GF dad can be nasty to the family, and that he has placed his GF in a position of being “in the middle” by standing on principle of not apologizing. This is fine - if she lives financially independent from her parents. However, if she still lives at home and is now having to walk on eggshells because of your son’s adamant refusal, while I understand the logic, by your own explanation he has (potentially) placed his girlfriend at risk.

Yes it absolutely sounds like both him and his girlfriend took poor care of each other during those months, and your family’s stance is more fair and functional. However, sometimes fairness, isn’t about right or wrong. In this case I’d expect an element of thinking broadly about what works best for them as a couple to be able to move forward in their relationship (should he want to). What does she need from him, and him from her.

I’ll admit I’m writing this, as a parent of younger kids - but knowing that both hubby and I navigated tricky family situations early in our relationship and marriage. Long term; we’ve put in place a lot of the boundaries that were needed. But getting to that point had to be each of our own choices (which acknowledging an impact on one another). He’s not wrong - but he’s determination has had a likely (very predictable) impact. This is a consequence of his stance and the position he’s put himself and his girlfriend in: and I feel for her (and him). Other posters are right to ask him to think of the event in wider contexts.

I know it sounds flippant but I’d advise your son that this is the time to get out of the relationship and move on.

Done, done, done!!

Please tell him to end the relationship asafp, go on holiday then learn what red flags in relationships are.

The gf is not going to have an easy life unless she does a lot of work to unpick her abusive upbringing. She will not be easy to have a relationship with.

If i was him I tell her I'll apologise to her dad when she apologises to my mum.

Then id dump her anyway. But id have to get that one in first.

Its probably not sensible but ridiculous people deserve ridiculous responses.

I agree that what treating each other badly means is also important, OP and DH may be sweeping things under the rug.

I cannot vote because we don't know what your son did. I feel it all needs to come out, so honest discussions can be made and responsibility taken for poor behaviour. Without the story, I think it's unfair for any defending and decisions to be made regarding your son and his GF. You need to ask him what he did.

If he cheated, then as a Mother of a son and daughter's- I would feel dubious over my own son.

This story makes no sense, if it was true you would not claim that your son was equally to blame.

Having said that I also agree with others that they should split up and move on, too much unnecessary drama for their age.

And if as you claim the girls father is an abusive alcoholic which is drip feed on your part, why do you want your son to continue such a relationship and get involved with such a family/man, have grandkids in the mix etc?

Yes we do. It is in her posts

But the girlfriend should not be blaming the OP’s son for her own failure to speak to her dad, tell him it’s all sorted and that he (and the rest of the family) should start treating her boyfriend with respect. The girlfriend is the one who has let this mess fester.

You didn't really give us any material information. First, no clue what the extent of the issues were and what your son's behavior was during relationship to assess if the gf's dad is somehow being unreasonable. I cant say if your son is being stubborn or it's the dad...

What an odd way to treat adult children.
What has the father of the girl got to do with their relationship? Does he consider his daughter chattel? Your son is wise to stick to his guns here. If he gives in, the father will feel he has licence to interfere in every argument/break-up/boundary they have as a couple.

The father probably thinks he's protecting his daughter but she's a grown ass woman and he needs to butt out.

I think the reason this relationship may ultimately fail is that the girlfriend doesn't have your son's back. She may not see how weird this all is as she's perhaps grown up in a family where this kind of meddling and infantilising is normal.

You can't have someone with different values or who hasn't got your back as a life partner. The girlfriend needs to stand up to her meddlesome family or this may be a slow-motion car crash.

To be honest, my dad would take mine or my sisters side even if we were in the wrong. He is just like that. I would probably tell your son to talk to the dad personally if he wants to continue the relationship, “man to man” kind of thing. That’s what works with old farts like that. If he genuinely thinks him and his GF are end game, he needs to just apologise. That sucks, but sometimes we need to keep the peace with the in laws. If he isn’t willing to do that just leave.

You posted about this a few months back....

Having watched my eldest son struggle through a similar situation, he finally left his partner after having given them a third chance. He said he’d had enough of being in a complex relationship with 3 people (partner plus over involved parents) rather than just 1 person. He felt he constantly had to compromise, and this affected his self esteem.

The relationship sounds toxic and probably best if it’s ended - before any children are bought into the mix.

From your update, it sounds as though the dad is controlling and aggressive. And, as suggested by other posters, your son’s girlfriend is possibly frightened of him. This why she hasn’t stood up for your son in this whole apology business, because she wants to appease her dad and stay in his good books. While I would feel sorry for her, the actual reason for her misplaced loyalty doesn’t matter. She will always be pandering to her dad’s moods. I speak from experience. I have been with DP for many many years. He has never stood up for me when his parents were being rude to me or trying to control and manipulate me. I felt for him because he had a difficult upbringing and I believed that, because I understood the awkward dynamics of his family, I could live with him always capitulating to them. But it has just lead to me feeling second best and very far down the pecking order. I have hated being the ‘bigger person’. Things are easier now that his parents are old and have mellowed somewhat, but I regret being a doormat. So, my advice to your son would be to think very carefully about throwing his lot in with a woman who doesn’t stick up for him with regard to this sort of power play. It won’t end well.