Son asked for advice - what would you advise him?

[SallyMcCarthy]

My 21-year-old son and his gf have been together 3 years. In Feb 23, they split up for a few months after both treating each other badly. Then in summer 2023 they got back together, committed to making it work, and have been happy together ever since. My husband and I welcomed the gf back into our life instantly and unconditionally. From our point of view, whatever had gone wrong between them and then been sorted out was entirely their business. All we needed to know was that our son had now decided he wanted to be with her again. It was up to him! Since he now wants her in his life, she’s of course going to be part of ours.

Her dad took a different approach, however: he told her that it wasn’t good enough that she and my son had apologised to each other, sorted it out and got back together. He said he wouldn’t allow my son back at his dinner table until my son had apologised to him for the way he had treated his daughter.

My son, thinking this man was unreasonable, and being unwilling to pander to such interference and boundary violation, didn’t apologise to his girlfriend’s dad, and as a result has been ostracised by her family ever since. So, my son and his girlfriend have been hanging out with our family a lot. She’s been treated like a member of our family - allowed to stay and eat with us all the time, taken out for meals, taken on holidays… we’ve all just accepted that this is how it’s going to be - our family being nice to her while hers is horrible to my son.

However… a problem has now arisen. My son was planning to treat her to an amazing holiday abroad, which he was going to pay for and was happy to pay for. Then, just as he was about to book it, he found out that she was going on holiday with her family for a week later in the summer - and that her brother and sister’s respective girlfriends and boyfriends were invited on this holiday. His girlfriend also blamed him for the fact that he wasn’t invited and said to him, ‘It’s your fault you’re not invited - why can’t you just apologise to my dad like he’s wanted you to since Feb 2023?’

My son told me last night that he’s now feeling much less keen to treat his girlfriend to this holiday, for two reasons:

1. she seems to think he is entirely responsible for the continuing problem between him and her family, rather than realising her dad is the unreasonable one - and he’s hurt that she hasn’t in any way stuck up for him to her dad or advocated for him - instead she’s blaming this long-standing issue totally on my son.

2. he no longer feels comfortable that he, and our family, are treating her so nicely and treating her to all this stuff, and she’s happily accepting all of it while also allowing her family to exclude my son and being willing to go on holiday with them while they exclude him, and blaming it all on him.

I think it is totally reasonable of him to have qualms about treating her to a holiday given that she’s not, as he sees it, sticking up for him to her dad? But am I being unreasonable?

OP, another vote for advising your son to run a mile. He's 21 years old. Life should be full of fun and gigs and happy dates and being carefree (such as you can be these days). I would be highly surprised if your son's girlfriend has told her dad that she herself cheated. In fact, if she has, and her dad still believes that your son should be apologising, then that's more confirmation that he needs to lace up his fastest running shoes and make for the hills.

Another one saying what's happened between the 2 of them isn't forgiven or forgotten. This will resurface in the future again and again.
I mean who in their right mind holds a grudge for over 2 years and who's willingly facilitating this? Life is to short. Tell him to run as fast and as far as he can. Plenty more fish in the sea at age 21.

Why would he apologise ot her father for that, if he was abusive to her then he apologises to her.

Anyway from what the OP has said the girlfriend was the one who was really out of line and I'd advise him to dump her.

My advice for your son would be to say to his girlfriend that he has thought about what she said about he should have just apologised back then. And that she needs to explain very carefully exactly where she stands in this, and what she meant by it because it WILL affect their future relationship.

He can also calmly explain to her his side, and there has been many good thoughts on here. Like someone said, she is quite happy to be treated by your family and quite happy for your son to be treated very badly. She simply can’t have it both ways. It’s very unequal.

And no, he shouls not spend money on a holiday for her. By the end of the holiday with her family they will all have convinced her what an arse your son is.

So how would an apology work - your DS says to the dad “sorry I upset your daughter” and miraculously, the dad - and her whole family - forget they’ve ignored and ostracised him and everyone lives happily ever after? The past few years are just forgotten? They all pick up where they left off?

What happens in the future when they’ve perhaps got children and your DS parents them, but not to father-in-laws ‘standard’. Or he’s not a good enough provider/helpful enough at home/any perceived slight…

Does your son have to apologise to her dad or risk being ostracised again?

If they have children and then split up, will your son be ostracised and have his own children turned against him?

Your son should end the relationship- there will always be 3 of them in it, him, her and her dad. He’s young, there are plenty of other people he could meet and have a relationship with that’s not full of all this drama.

@SallyMcCarthy I would advise my son not to spend money on an expensive holiday for his gf as she currently doesn't seem to have his back. In fact, it seems to me this relationship has run its course, but that's up to them to conclude.
OP, have you spoken to your DS's gf about this? Assuming you have given us an accurate account (with no omissions) about the reasons for their short break-up, have you asked her why her DF expects an apology from your DS, when you and your DH have not asked for an apology from her? (It seems to me that what she did was far worse than what your DS did.)
BTW, why on earth would she "like" cheaty man's comments? They weren't just "mocking" your son, they were saying rather a lot about her (lack of) moral compass!

Is nobody considering the possibility that the young man concerned might have been abusive? Violent

Irrelevant, because no excuse would ever be good enough... the relationship shuld have ended there and then.

I also agree with you there. However, just responding assuming all the context has been given that woman would not be welcome in my house.

But yeah, too much unknown to give definitive advice here

Why do you want to hear the side of the abusive alcoholic?

Her Dad sounds utterly awful and she is not yet mature enough to stand up to him, but stand up to him she must eventually for her own sanity. To what extent does she already accept the father's problems with alcohol, violence, and overbearing self-importance? If not at all, it's hard to know if it's worth sticking with her through her journey of coming to terms with it. Yes she's young and none of us are particularly wise at that age, but it doesn't sound like she has the appetite to accept that the Dad doesn't deserve an apology, therefore will not be getting one. Keeping the peace is not really an option until he dies - it will destroy the relationship and just shouldn't be necessary. Hopefully it will fizzle out.

My partner's father tried this bullshit with me. We made the mistake of going away with them and other extended family members (his mother's family, not the father's, btw) for a weekend, and his father felt I 'didn't make enough of an effort' at socialising with the family...this was 15 years ago and to this day I have no idea what extra I could have done!

My partner said 'oh just apologise to him' and I said fuck no! His father's opinion of my behaviour was exactly that - just his opinion and I was under no obligation to accept it.

The worst part of it all was that I was 41 at the time...

I've never ever apologised and I never ever will. The devil would be going to hell in a snowplough before I would!

It sounds like your young adult DS has more maturity than his GF and her family put together.

It's obvious from us older folk, looking from the outside in, that GF's 'D'F is doing a power play. He already has his family under his thumb - now he wants your DS to kiss the ring.

The emotional intelligence of the GF is warped by her DF's authoritarian stance. She probably genuinely believes that this is how normal human beings behave. She hasn't been living independently long enough to know how her DF is acting is batshit.

I would warn your DS that her DF's stance is unlikely to change and his GF may change her opinion but probably not in the next few years - can he or does he want to out up with that?

Did the gf apologise to you for the way she treated your son?! If the gf was on side with your son and telling her dad he's out of order that would be different, but the fact she's going along with it suggests they all enjoy this sort of petty drama. I'd tell your son to think about whether there's a future in this relationship. If they wanted to get married and have kids, the Dad would continue to stick his nose in and make unreasonable demands.

I wonder op has the gf ever thanked you for being so understanding and not judgemental on why she was so cruel and unkind to your son,

you haven't judge her behaviour or demanded an apology,

Your son is a fully grown adult and needs to make his own decisions. Just be there to support him/ pick up the pieces if needs be.

It’s sometimes hard watching your adult children do things that you wouldn’t necessarily do yourself, but all part and parcel of parenting young adults and watching them learn from their own (sometimes difficult) life lessons. You won’t do him any favours by trying to solve this for him.

They are 21 - young - should be in the 'loves young dream' bit of life - not knee deep in a toxic family feud.

• There has been cheating
• There has been disrespect
• There has been a lack of loyalty (on both sides)
• There has been a lack of united front (from her)
• There are toxic masculinity/ego/control issues from her dad who you now report as an abusive drunk
• There is a disparity in how they are treated by respective families
• You are painting yourself as welcoming and warm to GF but clearly do harbour bad feelings. You describe her 'crimes' as far worse than your son (she cheated and mocked your ds vs he kissed someone for two mins). We don't know how true that is but that's your truth and it will effect how you view the relationship.
• There has been far too much parental influence full stop

This is going nowhere.
Let the scales fall from your DS eyes
Sep away from the blame game - just let this nonsense fizzle out.

He's not, she's punishing OP's DS for her father's behaviour.

BTW, why on earth would she "like" cheaty man's comments? They weren't just "mocking" your son, they were saying rather a lot about her (lack of) moral compass!

This. What an awful girl she is is. They may have both been immature over the cheating but this is just vindictive, bullying behaviour. He should not have allowed her to get away with this by going back to her. (Unless we are only hearing the OP's DS's side of the story) tell him to run for the hills.

Also is it such a good idea for him to be spending a lot of money on her for this expensive holiday? They're 21, so young - why can't they go on a 'normal' holiday and they pay for themselves?

Why does he feel that he should be paying for her?

He’s also, on many occasions, witnessed her (alcoholic) dad scream abusivley at gf and reduce her and her mum to tears!!

That fits in with his pedantic emotionally immature attitude towards the situation. He won't change. He'll be huffing and puffing about something else in the future. Probably sees himself as 'head of the family' and will use that power when ever he can, if allowed. Your son needs to come to terms with that and whether or not he is able to put his feelings of justice aside and appease this man now and in the future. I would find that hard at 52 let alone 21...

Would he WANT to go on holiday with this man?

Anyway, for now I would put the holiday idea on hold. I think his reasons are perfectly reasonable. As is said many times on here when there are complaints about a MIL or FIL...you have a DH/DW/BF/GF problem really. He is astute enough to realise that at 21, which is good!

This isn’t going to end well for your son, and is a taste of what the future might look like if they stay together . Does your son really want to be a part of a family so controlling and manipulative?

There’s not enough info to know whether the Dad is being unreasonable or not. From his perspective he is probably trying to protect his DD. He won’t be aware of the cheating. Sometimes a timely apology and sit down can do wonders. Would it really have been so bad for him to try to at least talk with the Dad to assure him that he does love his DD and wants to make it work? Of course there are 2, 3, 4 sides but that’s not too hard and didn’t mean him shouldering full blame, nor should he. Doubling down only going to lead to two immovable objects. The impasse won’t resolve on its own, so your DS options are. Do nothing and situation with the Dad will be a recurring issue, or go talk to him. It’s not even about right/wrong as much as facing issues and trying to resolve them. Once he’s done that, then he can decide on holiday and at least his GF (tell him to stay calm!) will know he tried…
Often when folk fall out all kinda of labels are bandied about, so best to focus on resolution which may not be possible.
Of course if what you say is true, why on earth doesn’t his GF confess?

I've read your latest update. My advice would be to break up.

Sounds like old school misogyny. Girlfriend's dad doesn't trust girlfriend to manage her own relationships, sees her as his property and wants an apology for damage to his property.

Your son should just take the high-road. Treat her to a holiday.

He's not going to be able to rewrite the intense familial scripts that facilitate a misogynist. Quite dignity over time makes the girlfriend's dad seem more and more unreasonable.

I feel for the girlfriend. He sounds awful. She has to live under his roof and has no doubt been on eggshells for years. She also has no idea what a healthy relationship looks like. Of course your son shouldn’t apologise though.