To think that most parents find saying ‘no’ to children very difficult?

[Mumbletoomuch]

I’m struggling with the fact my very reasonable friends seem incapable or scared of saying no to their children.

Child wants to eat the last homemade cupcake (second helping) when everyone else has had one? Of course. Just eats the icing off and wastes the rest? Just laughs it off

Child has friends over to play but wants to watch telly for hours straight? Meaning the play date is a TV marathon? Of course

Child wants huge monster slushy at a birthday party, when the hosts have provided squash? Of course. Many other children then start whining at their parents for the same? Of course

Child wants to role play with parent while they’re having a conversation with a friend? Of course. This means the adult conversation is disjointed and pointless, not a problem.

I’ve become self-conscious about how many boundaries and ‘no’ I give to my children, or if it is legitimately annoying and lazy parenting. We go on holidays, we do fun things, I play with them, we watch TV, they eat sweets, but I say no to a lot during the day. I would say no or boundary set in all the above examples.

AIBU?

This is my experience through working with children.

They are not naughtier, they are less used to having to accommodate another person, therefore less used to hearing no, and yes in my very up to date experience are the ones that react worst when their parents tell them no.

With regards to the OPs examples; someone with more than one kid has to work out what to do if one asks for slushy, there’s one cake left. I actually can’t remember the other examples, TV on play date? Because you can’t automatically just say yes there becomes more of a thought process…what happens if I say yes to one…etc? If you have just one child then you deal with just one reaction.

Interestingly this is generally the case with just the parents. Children quickly realise that we simply can’t prioritise their needs over others in a childcare setting. They’re needs are equal to everyone else whilst with us.

We invited friends over for a playdate and the mum put the TV on in my house, for their child very. We rarely watch TV. My child was stood there like with the look of disgust on their face like what's going on, don't you want to play with me? My kid dutifully sat down with friend to watch, then grabbed the remote and turned it off telling friend a very firm "No! you're here to play so let's play." and then disappeared to play. The friend burst into tears and the mum was trying to cajole them, close to tears themselves 😂 I was very proud of my 4yo for saying no in that moment.

Thankfully most of my friends are not like this. However, I teach many children who are the product of this! They are doing them no favours in the long run.

I said YABU as some of those things would not bother me. Like the cupcake one. As long as the other people there are adults who cares if a child gets a second cupcake?

It’s also ok to find it difficult to say No as long as you still say No. I found it difficult when mine were little as dealing with tantrums is shit. Had to brace myself each time. Especially when you know so many other parents, with placid natured children, as so judgey.

So you are damned if you do and damned if you don’t as a parent. ( well, Mother, Fathers seem to have praise upon praise heaped on them merely for being in the presence of their children).

The cake one for me isn’t about who gets the last one. It’s about the value that someone spent time making these cupcakes, and the small child has already eaten one. Their stomachs are small and no child needs two cupcakes. No adult would need two cupcakes in one sitting either! This was proven when the child wasted it. But I would use that example to demonstrate no, we don’t gorge on cake just because it’s available. Same with the slushie ‘you’re about to eat birthday cake and sweets and have the biggest treat, so no, I’m not also buying a slushie’. There’s no thought for teaching them some self control or making balanced.

Most of these examples don’t relate to only children. I think they do have some particular challenges, but the overriding factor with their behaviour will still be the parenting style and the extent to which they’re indulged.

On another note, the amount of play dates I’ve had where the children don’t just play! My kids are always so excited, but these children come and just linger around me asking for various things. It also drives me wild, and is it all linked? My kids will be upstairs playing and the guest is downstairs wanting to play with me or at least constantly asking for my input in what they’re doing.

Wow putting TV on for a playdate, that is a whole new level of disturbing!

Not my experience. The only children I know have been pandered to and never told no - exactly how op describes. The ones with siblings have had different experiences.

Guess it depends on the parents. Useless parents are useless no matter how many kids they have.

This is exactly how I have raised mine, I have a strict rule of once something is a no it is a no at that point because of course boundaries change as they grow older.

i hate it when parents say no and then change their mind due to tantrums to make life easier so I have always thought about what I am saying no to and what my hard nos are.

some of the above would also come with caveats, the play date I wouldn’t like but who arrange it did the child actually want it.

and Yes this has worked out ok so far DD just done GCSEs and never got a single code or negative in her life and DS year 7 only has 3 minor ones in his

I don't have a problem saying no but I get a lot of pushback, from one child with SEN especially. So sometimes in social settings with others I may say yes to avoid a major issue which would mean leaving (he might run away or get very upset and have a meltdown, again i am fine dealing with this but if it means the other children also have to leave, my guest is ignored for 30 mins while i deal with an autistic meltdiwn then i will letbit go). I often say no too, but I judge the tolerance for refusals. And I say no a lot at home.
But I don't like parents judging each other. So I voted YABU. As pps said, get off your high horse.

I have no problem saying no when I want to. I might say yes to the cupcake depending on circumstances (size of cupcake, rest of meals planned, etc). I might say yes to tv on a play date depending on the age of the kids and frequency of their play dates (mine is 8, I’d be ok with a bit of tv for him, not for a 4 year old).

Interrupting, I’d say no. Slushy I’d say later or next time we come, if nobody else was eating one. I don’t have a moral objection to slushies! But if you are not the birthday child, you don’t buy yourself special food, you eat what everyone else is eating.

I’m recognising quite a lot in these posts. I feel like I spend my life saying no to my DC, but at times with all the bargaining it’s hard to stick to the initial no. I do like to listen to their opinions, so perhaps that’s where they persevere with trying to get what they want. I could just saying “because I said so” but that also doesn’t teach them any kind of negotiation. But there are the definite noes, but I have sympathy for people if they have children with more defiant personalities who don’t take no for an answer.

A lot of the examples above are about screens and food. Compared to when I grew up obviously screens are everywhere, but also food as a treat or a pleasure is pervasive. Every week there is a party or a play date with sweets etc, I’m finding that treats are no longer treats. I guess what I’m trying to say is that the quality of life for children has improved so when things aren’t as they expect they are less resilient.

Interesting. Which ones?

I only have one child and I find it straightforward to say no as I only need to manage their reaction- my friends with more than one DC find it hard to manage the 6yo crying about the sky show because the 2yo has decided to leg it to the other side of the room. I don’t think you can generalise about the number of siblings.

As someone else said there's a difference between not saying no and having different boundaries. My son is 4 with ASD and a PDA profile. He's in mainstream school and masks very well but has explosive meltdowns at home. In school they've noticed his reaction to 'no' or some demands. We let some things slide so we can leave the house, do normal stuff but inevitably there reaches a point where we have to turn around and go home with DS because he's crossed a boundary. An example would be if we go to the park DS picks up a stick (something he loves to do) - most parents will tell their kids not to. For us this would turn into a massive meltdown & we would have to leave. So as long as he's not hurting anyone or near anyone it's ok for us. If he were to start throwing it then we would have to stop him. It's a hard boundary. Then inevitably we go home. We do lots of things to try to tackle this - seeing a child psychologist, parenting courses, reward charts, time out, routine, no tv at all.......but to be honest nothing works. I know we are judged alot when we are out but it's not through lack of trying. Sometimes we just avoid going out at all if it's somewhere which is likely to trigger him or something that would set him off. I'm hoping at some point things get better.

Most people find saying no to anyone difficult

My neighbour would ask the rest of the neighbours on the road to set boundaries & say no to her little prince. She didn't want to be seen as the baddie so was happy for us to take on that role. In the end he grew up to be a nightmare & had no respect for his mum or anyone else. They're now estranged after a particularly explosive argument which is sad but not surprising.

Child dependent again, as so many things are. Mine are all grown up now (as are their friends, and I only know ONE where a lack of what I would call 'efficient parenting' has had any real, long-lasting effect), and I had one that wouldn't take 'no' without extreme reactions, one (ND) who was quiet and mostly biddable, two that varied from 'tantrum and scream in the hope that mum will break down' to 'shrug and go and do it anyway and worry about it afterwards' and the youngest who could be reasoned with.

So most days were a kind of 'parenting by consensus' with an awful lot of 'no'. They are all fine now and perfectly reasonable human beings.

@Crapola25 that sounds really tough but you're handling it really well. I hope things settle as he grows older, my dc have ASC but not on the PDA profile. I can't imagine how difficult that must be having an extra layer of complication.

Mine are adults now but I had absolutely no problem saying 'no' to either them or their friends. I also don't have a problem telling other peoples' children off! I guess that makes me a monster.
Our friends with young children definitely say no and tell them off for interrupting. And these are children who were born/very young during Covid - which seems to be an excuse for all sorts of poor behaviour/parenting these days.

I think this is it. Ds is an only child, is good at sharing and taking turns and does as he's told. But then I also make a point of creating situations where he needs to be considerate and share etc at home by placing value on my wants and needs since he doesn't have a sibling to need to do that with. Also because I want him to grow up seeing that it's important to advocate for yourself and what you want.

I also think it's easier to say no when you're managing one reaction (provided your child is nt) - in my house growing up we were awful with each other but we knew that we could wear my mum down easily and no never really meant no. Ds knows that when I say no it really is final and if he gets upset I'm OK with that - i see it as it's not my job to give him whatever he wants, but it is my job to help him build resilience and manage his emotions so I'll support him through disappointment/ anger etc but I won't back down unless I know I have acted overly harshly in the moment and am regretting it in which case I'll be honest about that.

Don't see the problem with the cupcake thing. If everyone has had one, and there's only one left, someone will have two. Why not the kid?

Tv - depends on age.

Slushy- meh.

Interrupting - rude if no extenuating circumstances.

Tbh this mostly sounds pretty trivial, not evidence that people can't set boundaries. Just an opportunity for you to crow a little about what a superior parent you are.

YANBU and I do see this with friends and family with young kids. However it may just be a case of picking your battles when in public. For example if my 4 year old wants another cup cake and I have a friend over for a coffee, I might be more inclined to say yes so that I get 10 minutes peace to chat to a friend instead of dealing with the tantrum/constant repeated requests for the cake, probably not great parenting but hey sometimes I need a break! That doesn’t mean I don’t say no the other 95% of the time when the friend is not there and deal appropriately with the consequences of that no.

I can't think of an age I wouldn't say no to any of mine in the above situation.

How do these kids relate to other kids? DD has a friend who’s mum I’m pretty sure tries to never say no. Playdates often devolve into tears when Dd won’t automatically do what she wants. We had some big group playdates and DD is very active and this little girl struggles to keep up (I’m very clear with DD she waits for her friend or helps them in softplay). She would want to do something like play shops and DD’s trying to climb, if DD doesn’t stop what she’s doing to go play the little girl has a tantrum and dissolves into tears, another time DD didn’t want to dance, same thing, massive meltdown and tears. She’s fundamentally a nice kid but just can’t cope when someone says no to her and doesn’t know how to negotiate either (i.e. we’ll do your thing and then after we can do my thing).

In DD defence if someone hasn’t wanted to do the same thing as her she will shrug and let them go do their stuff while she does the thing she wants to do. When she split off from her friends during a playdate when she was 3 I was encouraging her to go back and join the group and she said “they can do what they want and I can do what I want” which is pretty healthy imo.