To think that most parents find saying ‘no’ to children very difficult?

[Mumbletoomuch]

I’m struggling with the fact my very reasonable friends seem incapable or scared of saying no to their children.

Child wants to eat the last homemade cupcake (second helping) when everyone else has had one? Of course. Just eats the icing off and wastes the rest? Just laughs it off

Child has friends over to play but wants to watch telly for hours straight? Meaning the play date is a TV marathon? Of course

Child wants huge monster slushy at a birthday party, when the hosts have provided squash? Of course. Many other children then start whining at their parents for the same? Of course

Child wants to role play with parent while they’re having a conversation with a friend? Of course. This means the adult conversation is disjointed and pointless, not a problem.

I’ve become self-conscious about how many boundaries and ‘no’ I give to my children, or if it is legitimately annoying and lazy parenting. We go on holidays, we do fun things, I play with them, we watch TV, they eat sweets, but I say no to a lot during the day. I would say no or boundary set in all the above examples.

AIBU?

Exactly, it is hard and why so many parents can't be bothered

Think it goes beyond kids.

look at the posts on here - so many women utterly unable to put their needs first and say no to mil, friends, dh , parents , bosses etc.

Not saying ever put yourself in danger with abusive people - but everyone needs to set appropriate boundaries with other people and learn to say ‘no’ when it doesn’t suit.

parenting most definitely needs boundaries and rules and sometimes that does mean saying ‘no’ if you can’t do this when there are little so they learn that parents set the parameters - the teen years are going to be hellish.

learning to respect yourself and say ‘no’ is an essential adult skill but I think as women we are too often conditioned into bring nice and subservient to others that so many don’t learn how to do it.

’no’ isn’t being selfish or unkind - it’s setting appropriate boundaries that are so needed.

What?! The only children I know are much better behaved than kids with more than one child. Probably because they are used to compromising with others that they're not related to?

I sat no plenty but some of those examples are odd.

Like, I'd have said no to the second cupcake but in the instance where someone gives my child a cupcake and they only eat the icing how would you expect to proceed? You can't forcefed the cupcake.

Playdates with TV, we don't do this but if it goes on for a couple of hours after school and everyone starts getting ratty but me and my friends/their mums are still chatting we'll turn the telly on for a bit while we put the world to rights and get shoes on.

The slushy at parties thing kept coming up, so we resolved that with a bit of a group plan that slushies are only purchased on the way home if having them.

Talking to kids when also talking to other parents. ... Age dependant to me, so my 3 yr old I'll approach differently to my 7 yr old. But kids and parenting responsibility still exists even if I want to chat to an adult so even kids friends parents if we want a proper adult chat we'll arrange a coffee after school drop off if we're off work that day or an evening meet up without kids. It's not role playing with kids but someone's always falling over, got a picture to show us, got beef with a pal they want to tell on etc. Who wants to chat about menopause and school gossip or whatever on the middle of that?

This makes no sense at all, my kids definitely learn empathy and compromise by the sheer fact we as parents CANT accommodate 2 sets of requests even if we wanted to. They compromise all the live long day. Their only children friends come round and their parents are laser focused on that child's needs and wants which is not possible with more than 1. You also get more used to telling your child no when the person impacted is your other child. Because the idea in the op that just saying he's all the time keeps them quiet doesn't work when one wants to play on the garden and the other wants to go to the park.

Why would having a sibling mean they aren't compromising with people they aren't related to? They still have the same friends and playdates as an only

I think most of Your examples are trivial and inconsequential (except the interrupting). Jane’s Dad buys a slushee and you want one Tommy? Eh no. I am ok with you feeling jealous/hard done by and am happy to sit with your anger towards me saying no. If Jane’s parents but her a jaguar are you expecting the same?

Yeah OP most of your examples are just trivial and sound like people being out of the ordinary. I will let my children eat and drink things if it is a birthday. Due to the amount of sugar they have consumed and how excited they are I am more likely to let things slide a bit that I wouldn’t at home. But I would discuss my expectations of behaviour before I go in and if it hasn’t gone well have a discussion and possibly consequences when we get
home. So YOU haven’t seen my no or me parenting situations but it doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened.

agree with you on screens - that is lazy parenting and no good can come of it. We took all iPads and tablets away 6 months ago and it’s certainly made my loft more difficult in many respects but it’s lessened the cheekiness massively and I have seen a vast improvement in attention span, creativity and imaginative play kids age 6 and 4

It must just be the people I see, it's always siblings fighting and the ones who never want to share. All the only children I know are really well behaved.

So libgs push the boundaries more with each other than with other kids. Because they know them and love them and know they'll fall back into friendship even if they wind each other up. If you have an only child and are an only child sibling relatio ships can look wild but it's similar to kids behaving their worst for their parents. My kids might argue but then 15 mins later they're giving each other glitter tattoos, making each other friendship bracelets and playing Pokemon and princesses. They learn rekatio ship repair after co flict which is really important

My kids WILL fight with each other and I always correct it (a lot of people don't which I think is a mistake) but they don't take that same energy to their non sibling friends. They share and take turns much more easily outside. Although neurotypical daughter finds tht much easier than my ND son despite him being 3 years older. Some kids have a harder time with it. Also sharing is something we seem to expect much more from kids than adults, noone expects an adult to pass their new car round for everyone to have a turn but plenty of parents expect a kid to share say a new scooter.

Also, a lot of the only children I know are very well behaved in front of their parents and absolutely different creatures when their parents aren't there because their parents helicopter constantly and intervene in every disagreement. By necessity rather than design I have to let a certain amount of freedom and independence happen as I'm only 1 person and I think that's actually good for kids. They need to learn to navigate things themselves a bit

In my experience it is the only children that react worst to being told no. Simply because they hear it less. This is through no fault of the child or even parents really, it’s just simply because they don’t need to accommodate someone else ALL the time.

There is literally no reason an only child is parented and corrected less and therefore hears “no” less. Stop projecting these utterly ridiculous generalisations.

My DCs' sibling relationship can frequently be... fractious (but that also has the complicating factor of clashing ND social and sensory needs to complicate things). What's harder to notice is when they are getting on well and just chatting, or co-operatively gaming together online in seperate parts of the house (they're secondary age)

1:1 and either child is delightful.

They also both have very calm, stable friendships with no drama.

They just save it up for when their brother is around.

"No" was always a normal, proportionate part of my vocabulary anyway. I worked with young people prior to having children. I would have used it if I'd had one child (and did as he was a toddler). Having two with differing needs, I can not accomodate every request and have two functioning, happy children. With one child (and their reduced expense) it is easier to indulge resquests.

Thinking about it, I probably do indulge more when they're 1:1. Yesterday I was at an event with one of them. He ended up with an ice cream and a McDonalds because it fitted proportionately with the event and our plans for the day. The cost was reduced and there were no arguments of accomodating child 2's preferences. Child 2 was out with DH and also got smilar benefits.
If the ice cream and McDonalds hadn't seemed like appropriate requests, it would have been a "no"

They're not the world's easiest children, but they do know what "no" is and that badgering is futile (and also that there is usually a sensible reason; we're not just being contrarian on a power trip)

Some of the situations you mention are just personal preference and quite subjective.

There's no right or wrong about whether to say no to a child wanting a slushie or a cupcake or some TV time or attention from a parent - it's up to the individual parents to make that decision in the context of the moment.

I think you're being a bit judgemental about those things and as part of a balanced approach they are fine.

But I do agree it's not good for children to have the world always revolve around them.

Ridiculous.

Slightly off topic but about screen time - I was watching England v France on Saturday & the camera kept focusing on 2 kids in the crowd on their tablets, wearing over the ear headphones. If you take kids to a big event, why aren’t they watching it?! Having said that, they may have been neurodivergent. But you do see kids on screens SO much, even very little ones with Mum’s phone going round the supermarket.

We took my kids to a football match recently, they love football, especially my daughter and it was a women's game so less busy. They each loved it but also got overwhelmed with a noise a few times and had ear defenders and my ND son hates ear defenders so had earphones and 5 mins of a video to take him out of the hullabaloo for a brief break. Hands video back but keeps headphones on. Sorts the hating ear defenders issue

Three kids in and I step right back from friendships like the ones described in the OP. I want friendships where the kids on the whole play amicably and non-destructively and saying something like “I’m talking to my friend now, off you go to play” is acceptable and understood. Obviously young kids need guidance and support but “we do x and not y” is part of that. I don’t say no often and allow them plenty of freedom but when I do even my preschoolers know that it means no.

I think things have changed a lot over recent years.

My childen are adults now and I never had a problem saying no. My eldest had two friends at primary whose parents couldn't say no.

One set of parents ended up having parenting classes when their child was a teen and the other had a number of fixed term exclusions from school due to behaviour.

In schools now, the worst behaviour comes from the children whose parents don't say no either because they are very nice middle class parents and they don't want to limit their children's self expression in any way or because they're disinterested and don't care what the children are doing as long as it's not inconveniencing them.

Yep and it's times when it's not saying no but there's a choice so your child is hearing no. If we go out for fast food lunch my daughter wants McDonald's, my son wants subway. We're not doing both. Someone's having to compromise. If they were an only child there'd be instances they could just choose with no pushback.

My parents weren't strict. Compared to my friends parents anyway. All 5 of us went to university, got good degrees and work in professional careers. We got told no less than all our friends. Not with material things but with things we wanted to do. Stayed home from school if overtired, watched TV all we liked, I'm 42 but I spent a fair bit of my evening on man messenger to school friends with noone worrying about screentime.

I once worked with a child that "no" meant "persist for 5 minutes until I crack". She had perfected the broken record technique of badgering.

It was a residential that re-trained her. Multiple adults consistently sticking to the same plan. After that trip she did accept that "no" actually meant "that ain't happening"... when with us anyway. Not so much at home.

Fortunately she was generally a pleasant child without any malice, it was just that her parents couldn't seem to break the habit of not bestowing any petty disappointment and just constantly gave in despite the toll on them. They seemed stuck on going down the path of least immediate resistance and exhausted from it.
The other fortunate thing was that they were so passive that they didn't mind other people saying no and intervening.

The big difficulty is when there's some kind of ideological strategy going on and parents resent any interference when other people bring in reasonable standards, and that's a trend that's become more prevelent over the last 10-15 years which has made managing children in group settings harder.

Siblings develop sibling rivalry, having to 'accomodate someone else ALL the time' doesn't automatically make for peace and harmony.

You have quite an outdated view of only children!

But why would they hear it less if they're doing something 'naughty'? Anyway, the only children I know are are always well behaved. The others are usually terrible at sharing, the girls are worse and the girls are always the meanest "you can't play with my toys" etc. In my experience, we all have different experiences though 😉

Looking back with rose tinted glasses here! I was at school decades ago with many kids behaving appallingly while both teachers and parents turned a blind eye.

There have always been parents who say yes to their kids and parents who take too little interest - none of this is new.

For example - Charlie Bucket was nice, all the others were let down by parents - the book was written in the 60s. This idea that parenting is getting worse is ever-present.

I clearly say no a lot as my kids often know not to ask and I have heard them say before mum won't let us 😂

I do agree it is sometimes just differences in ways of doing things. I remember a day out with a group of friends. No sooner had we got there one girl started pestering for an ice cream. We all moved on but next minute she was back with one as her mum let her have one. The rest of us just gave each other a look and said we would do that later, we had only just arrived and that we wanted to do other things.

I do think it's rude for a child to just want to watch TV when their friend is there and I would kick them off or tell them no play dates.
There is definitely a dependence on screens these days - I noticed yesterday in the supermarket lots of toddlers in pushchairs holding a phone or tablet while the mum shopped. I get that it might be a boring job but life can be boring!

I think you just need to find people in tune with how you parent. I have a great friend who will message me before hand to say if she has given her daughter spending money/promised a particular treat so I have advance warning of whether to allow mine the same or to be prepared to say no and that friends daughter is getting that for whatever reason but they have had xyz instead.