To think that most parents find saying ‘no’ to children very difficult?

[Mumbletoomuch]

I’m struggling with the fact my very reasonable friends seem incapable or scared of saying no to their children.

Child wants to eat the last homemade cupcake (second helping) when everyone else has had one? Of course. Just eats the icing off and wastes the rest? Just laughs it off

Child has friends over to play but wants to watch telly for hours straight? Meaning the play date is a TV marathon? Of course

Child wants huge monster slushy at a birthday party, when the hosts have provided squash? Of course. Many other children then start whining at their parents for the same? Of course

Child wants to role play with parent while they’re having a conversation with a friend? Of course. This means the adult conversation is disjointed and pointless, not a problem.

I’ve become self-conscious about how many boundaries and ‘no’ I give to my children, or if it is legitimately annoying and lazy parenting. We go on holidays, we do fun things, I play with them, we watch TV, they eat sweets, but I say no to a lot during the day. I would say no or boundary set in all the above examples.

AIBU?

I’m not sure how else to explain how social norms work. You genuinely don’t seem to understand. Maybe google?

We don’t agree on our parenting this much is true. But you’ve missed the point entirely.

What’s the social norm that means someone isn’t allowed a cupcake after everyone else has had one and no one else suggests they want it?

I think that one's ok, although usually I'd ask if anyone wants to share the last one and hope they'll say no 🤣 I'd also wait until it had been sitting there awhile. But the slushie at someone else's party, no no no no, never.
I guess most people tend to think of other people before they think of themselves, well you hope they would especially when they are with their beloved family and friends.
I think if you properly read through this thread it's pretty obvious, and there's plenty of examples and reasoning. It is concerning that this needs explaining to you though 😕

I don’t meet my kids needs to avoid causing disruption, I do it because I care for them.

We also care about our kids, that's why we say no to prepare them for later in life so they won't be disappointed when others say no to them, and so they grow up to be nice people that other people want to be around.

@Jellycatspyjamas Are you the parent that said something about a medical condition that causes overheating?
What would happen in that scenario if you said no?

Personally, it's my absolute favourite. I tell my kids that I've been ruining lives since 1975, and it is my raisin d'etre.

Didn't change the autocarrot on that because it made me smirk.

No that wasn’t me, but I’m very aware of children who can’t regulate their own body temperature and sometimes need quickly cooled down. In that situation I know the parent concerned is more concerned that their child doesn’t overheat, because it’s dangerous for them, than any disruption that might cause for others.

@Jellycatspyjamas If you do anything without concern for others and the impact you have around you then you’re selfish. It’s quite simple. My kids needs. My needs. My my my.

If you have a kid that can’t self regulate their temperature you’d be aware of this well before the event and would carry extra water etc. Much in the same way that if your kid has asthma you’d carry an inhaler or if they’re diabetic you’d carry insulin.

Using any excuse for selfishness doesn’t make it any less selfish.

But they vary from culture to culture group to group. They aren’t set in stone - what works for one may not work for the otheR

@Isitreallysohard it needs to be a balance of others and yourself - commuting on the London tube for example if you always thoughts just of others you wouldn’t get anywhere. It’s others in terms of letting people off the train first, then making sure elderly etc are sitting but they it is yourself.

and that is is @Howcloseisburnout yiur assumption is no slushy at all party is social etiquette but in an adult party etiquette often buys it themselves

it looks like the OP then is in a group which has different norms and expectations to her so it is up to her what to do about it.

@Tiswa Absolutely they differ from group to group and scenario to scenario, the issue here is that some people appear to not realise they exist at all. They act on what they want regardless of being able to read the situation.

I don’t think any of them are set in stone. The slushy thing was a kids party, adults party vs kids party = different expectations. Soft play party vs at home party = different expectations.

Exactly but I think in the soft play place the social norms are blurred as to what the expectations are and probably vary depending on age - maybe on a scale and certainly within the group.

So it is in this situation probable that the children didn’t know what the norms or expectations are either

I don’t know what I would expect mine to do (well I do DD she wouldn’t touch a slushy) with this when they were younger as we never had it - our soft plays never had them and DS only drank squash milk and water until a certain age! But it wouldn’t bother me if they asked or if someone else did

Disappointment is a perfectly normal feeling to have when you don’t get something you hoped for. Dealing with disappointment with grace is a different thing, a life skill that children need to learn. Expecting them to always get it right though sets them up for failure.

But surely if parents said no and stuck to it, not giving into tantrums from birth - then the child would learn that No actually means no, and wouldn’t waste their time having a tantrum because they’ve been brought up to know it doesn’t get them anywhere?!
no one likes being told no, but if no ALWAYS means no, then there would be no issue/disruption….
It is actually learnt behaviour for children to tantrum once out of toddler years, because they’ve learnt that a tantrum gets them what they originally got told no for.
Even ND children are capable of learning what no means and that simply isn’t a reason to never say no.

I’d have taken the stick and told the kid and parent that I was well within my rights to talk someone off if they were hitting me! What a delightful family!! I’d probably have also left at that point and not stayed a second longer.

In my family, if the kids try it, the hosts say ‘go on, let them’ but the parents rein their kids in (as the hosts know they will).

I’m sorry… I agree with you here BUT having a diabetic child is NOT as simple as ‘just’ carrying insulin….. sure if they’re high you’d administer insulin…. But in a scenario where they’re low because they’ve been running around at a birthday party, they would need fast acting glucose… so in that scenario you’d be the parent buying your child a packet of sweets or giving them something out of your handbag to treat their hypo…. Or maybe even buying them a slushie if they’re refusing anything else. You wouldn’t actually care what any of the other kids were doing, a hypo is a medical emergency and the kid could literally die!

Yes but surely you’d carry something at all times for either eventuality? A friend of mine carries specific fix things with her because she’s aware it’s a possibility, it’s also tracked to her phone so she knows the slightest alteration.
I’m not on about undiagnosed but I wouldn’t go anywhere without knowing I’d got the things with me?

@T1Dmama Yup 100% in my opinion.

I was just stating that people seem to fall into three camps. Both yes and no were for different reasons that concerned the impact on others and the third that doesn’t care if/how it affects others.

I believe most adults still need to learn that skill tbh.

So expecting a child to be able to do better is hypocritical. Rather it talks about the fact adults prefer no disruption rather than having to deal with a disappointed child. Ie the child ought to know how to handle disappointment with grace = stay silent, smile and move on.

Definitely- adults have tantrums too!

Yes and I do carry things with me, but if we are somewhere that sells nicer things it is occasionally nice for my DD to treat her hypo with something else.
But be honest, even if I got out a pack of sweets and gave my kid some, everyone else’s kids would still nag their parents for sweets… it’s what kids do.. it’s down to parents to say no

Why would I be more concerned about others than what my child needs? I’m not talking about saying yes because I can’t be arsed with an argument but if my child needs something that doesn’t quite fit with others views of social etiquette, why would I prioritise their views over my child’s needs?

@Jellycatspyjamas Well you wouldn’t as you’ve made it clear but others wouldn’t want to behave as selfishly 🤷🏼‍♀️

You would prefer to put the needs of others, including random parents you don’t really know, above thinking about your own child for fear of being seen to be selfish by someone? Weird