To think that most parents find saying ‘no’ to children very difficult?

[Mumbletoomuch]

I’m struggling with the fact my very reasonable friends seem incapable or scared of saying no to their children.

Child wants to eat the last homemade cupcake (second helping) when everyone else has had one? Of course. Just eats the icing off and wastes the rest? Just laughs it off

Child has friends over to play but wants to watch telly for hours straight? Meaning the play date is a TV marathon? Of course

Child wants huge monster slushy at a birthday party, when the hosts have provided squash? Of course. Many other children then start whining at their parents for the same? Of course

Child wants to role play with parent while they’re having a conversation with a friend? Of course. This means the adult conversation is disjointed and pointless, not a problem.

I’ve become self-conscious about how many boundaries and ‘no’ I give to my children, or if it is legitimately annoying and lazy parenting. We go on holidays, we do fun things, I play with them, we watch TV, they eat sweets, but I say no to a lot during the day. I would say no or boundary set in all the above examples.

AIBU?

I can only speak for my own circumstances, sometimes it’s not worth the battle.

It took us 7 attempts to get a tshirt on my (ND) stepson yesterday. 7 kicks to the face.

If he wants an icy drink, and that’s the only thing he’ll have, he needs to be hydrated and I’m not taking meltdown 7626161 of the day on the off chance someone gets “smug” otherwise.

You've got no idea why someone else might not make the same decisions you do. Maybe they’re feeling generous, maybe they don’t think it’s an issue, maybe they cba having whatever number battle they’re on for that day.

We should all focus on raising our own kids, and far less on what other people are doing with theirs. Like someone else said, I’d rather be occasionally lenient than be a dick.

As the party organiser, the kids aren’t going to ask their parents. They are going to clamour around me, and I’m going to be faced with 25 children also wanting an £8 slushy, plus mine feeling hard done by because Violet Beauregard is swanning around with a massive fancy drink.

My kids wouldn’t ask the party organiser for anything other than what’s on offer at the party. They might ask me if we’re at a place where slushies are on sale and if I was ok with them having one we’d get it on the way home. If other kids see and ask their parents it’s really not my issue.

I also really wouldn’t be bothered by the whole cup cake thing, if everyone has had one, and there’s one left. Licking the icing off is pretty standard child behaviour.

My kids are past play date age now but there’s no way they’d have been playing upstairs while their friend hung around with me and pesters me for stuff or for the tv. My kids would be directed to play something everyone could do and their friend would be directed to go and play.

It’s not my job to set boundaries for my kids so that another parent doesn’t need to say no to their child if they choose. Sometimes my kids will get what they ask for, sometimes not. Sometimes they’ll get what their friend gets, sometimes not.

If you want us to ‘reassure’ you (🤭) you’re a better parent than them, we will, but I expect most people don’t actually have a problem with saying no, you’ve just collated a few examples into one place and it’s skewing things for you. Or you’re feeling a bit insecure and need a bolster.

I’m sure you’re doing fine. Keep on with the boundaries, it’s probably the best way.

It’s really not hard to understand that different parents parent differently. You can’t seem to grasp that.

It's a waste of food unless you are absolutely sure the child will eat it. To just eat the icing isn't great. Eyes bigger than belly kind of not great.

The slushie thing -no- because it's a pain for those who don't want their child to have a slushie for whatever reason. The child already has a drink.

Went for coffee with a mate a couple of years ago. She brought her 9 yr old who insisted that his mother played Uno with him all the time we were having coffee. She was distracted and I couldn't ask her about important things like her cancer treatment. I don't think she was using him as protection in case I did ask but who knows. I was extremely concerned for her welfare as she has cancer. Bring the child, fine. With a Nintendo or a book and they sit quietly and don't interrupt parents frequently.

We all have our own boundaries for sure but I cannot bear bad manners.

@Sharptonguedwoman The slushie thing -no- because it's a pain for those who don't want their child to have a slushie for whatever reason. The child already has a drink.

Well exactly, so the problem clearly isn’t other parents not being able to say no, it’s you.

The friend thing isn’t a great example either. Your friend clearly didn’t want to sit and discuss her cancer or she would have. You don’t get to be the only one to dictate how conversations go. She chose to bring her child for whatever reason, that doesn’t mean the child should be ignored in the corner. Everyone needs to share time and the spotlight, adults included not simply kids.
Perhaps if your friend isn’t engaging in the conversation you want, think about whether it’s what they want.

There are some things in life that aren’t that deep, a child having a slushy is probably one of them.

Right. I can understand why some here have mentioned social etiquette but personally I am nowhere near as bothered over someone breaking etiquette as they are over a food item. Well, more I don’t care enough for it to be an annoyance to me.

As the saying goes “Not my circus, not my monkeys.”

Our child knows our rules and that is what matters to us. We’re not worried about the parent who bought a slushie or whose kid had the last cupcake and didn’t eat all of it. As you said, not that deep.

It's a situation I wouldn't let happen, nor would I be the cause of it. Just incredibly unhelpful for everyone else.

Bring the child, fine. With a Nintendo or a book and they sit quietly and don't interrupt parents frequently.

As soon as you bring a child to a coffee with friends the dynamic changes, you really can’t sit and have adult conversation and leave a child ignored in the corner. You need to accept that the conversation is going to need to be more child friendly. There’s no way I’d sit and discuss my serious health concern with a friend while my child was sitting there. That’s common sense and nothing about the child being rude.

I worked as a Nanny in the 90s-00s. I changed career, but recently went back to Nannying in the last few years. The parenting is wildly different to twenty years ago.

I Nanny for two families plus spend a lot of time alongside other parents and young children at classes/groups etc. Parents now seem terrified to let their kids cry, so give them whatever they want to stop the tears….. plus they hardly ever say no.

The toddlers in both families I nanny for rule the house and their parents. And are masters at turning on the tears and throwing tantrums to get whatever they want. I’m currently looking to leave Nannying!

Okay which is not the same as “parents can’t say no”, it’s annoyance that other parenting styles make it harder for you to stick to yours. It’s fine to feel like that, it’s not fine to think other people need to stick to your arbitrary rules. A child having a different juice is really not that big of a deal nor is it the downfall of society.

A much bigger issue really are those people who insert themselves into every situation just to moan about and judge others. Just live your own life. It’s okay if people aren’t like you.

Yeah whatever

You wanted her to sit and talk about her cancer treatment in front of her nine year old, but for him to read a book and pretend he couldn't hear and not interact in anyway? Would you ever expect an adult to endure a situation like that?

It teaches kids nothing but they get what they want which is going to affect them in the future.

All this angst over a slushie 😂

I absolutely didn't. I wanted to talk to her in the hope that she was getting better. I wasn't expecting the 9 yr old at all and because he was there, demanding his mother's attention it was incredibly difficult to talk about anything. The weather, holidays, whatever.
My problem lay with the fact my friend didn't say 'no Uno for 20 minutes'.

This isn’t parenting style differences, this is general social etiquette differences.

As proven it’s not about a parents ability to say no, it’s actually about when.

I think overall despite our differences we’re all in agreement that we can and do say no. What’s extreme is the polar differences in WHEN it should be used.

And yes @Hollietree I was nannying and teaching twenty years ago and that compared to now is wild! I’ve learnt a lot from this thread.

I am ever-thankful that I did say no to my kids, and they understand boundaries and so are polite, reasonable kids who don't whine (well, they might start to sometimes, but I swiftly put a stop to it).

They are clear that I am the boss, although I can be reasoned with, when I say no, that's it, it's done.

To be fair, it's probably not all me, they're good kids all round, and a lot of that is just them/their personality - I can't take all the credit for it - although I do know that they used to muck ex around at bedtime, and they'd never do that to me, because they know the rules.

I did think about what my friend wanted afterwards, believe me. I was just concerned about her, which I am allowed to be. Her son wouldn't have exploded if if he had to read a comic for 10 minutes. I did talk to him, of course.
Why can there not be adult time? Why do kids have to take centre stage when people meet for coffee?

Ask your pal?

100% so much adultifying of children on this thread it's actually quite sad.

@Sharptonguedwoman I fully understand your being concerned for your friend, as any good friend would be. But having had a few health issues myself over the years, sometimes I just wanted to be able to go out and have a nice coffee with my friend without having to go over my medical stuff. What you've described is really talking about your need to get updates, your need to feel like you're supporting her but it's not necessarily what she needed at that moment in time. What she obviously needed was you as her friend to be accommodating of her child's presence. And do you really not see that her cancer would have been more impactful to the child you expect to sit and act like they aren't there, than you as a grown woman? If that were me I'd be playing all the fucking uno I could. Plus now I'm a lone parent you better believe that I appreciate the most my friends who understand and accept that ds now goes where I go. I'd LOVE to be able to just go for a coffee and a proper catch up when it suited me, I actually really miss that but that's not the reality of my life now and the friends who understand that have been absolute blessings. I'm very lucky that my ds is quite happy to people watch or play with his toys but for the most part I tend to plan things around what I know of his attention span. I have friends with kids the same age who would go daft having to sit in a coffee shop because they'd get bored so fast.

"It's a waste of food unless you are absolutely sure the child will eat it. To just eat the icing isn't great."

I know for a fact that I hate Christmas cake but I love the marzipan-y icing. So I take a slice and deliberately only eat the icing. Should I not be allowed to do that either? Have you really never eaten something and then realised actually you couldn't finish it or didn't like it as much as you'd expected to? Many adults have eyes bigger than their bellies and again, you're expecting a child at a party to know their limits when lots of adults haven't learnt this?

Plus just think about all the threads we see on here where people suggest children shouldn't even be allowed in cafes or coffee shops unless they can sit silently. The pressure on parents now to be everything to everyone at the same time is actually crazy.

No, I took the hint and backed off. All I did in front of him is to ask her how she was, as you would with any friend. Friend and her husband took months to tell the son when a much loved granny died so I would never do anything to rock the boat.

I agree that the party situation is a bit different - when you are being 'hosted' by someone (as children are by the birthday child's parents), it's usually a little rude to bring your own drinks and snacks. And all children within a particular group - in this case, the party group - should generally be treated equally.

I do think there is an element on this thread of "I want you to say no to your children so I can keep my boundaries without having to deal with my children's meltdowns". I disagree with this - I think if you have fairly restrictive rules for your children as compared to other families, you just have to have courage in your convictions and brave the storm.

Example - I don't allow my kids to drink juice, squash or sugary smoothies. I know many parents do, but I don't. I'd look like a right ninny if I demanded that these things were removed at parties for all children. Instead, I just quietly substitute any juice carton or smoothie packet given to my child with their water bottle without making a fuss. My child doesn't make a fuss either. We completely accept that other families have different rules and that some children have trouble drinking plain water. We even keep some squash in the house for visitors. My kids know they can have milk or water.

If his mum has been unwell, had cancer I imagine he’ll want his mums time and attention all the more. I know my two would be worried and anxious no matter how much I hid my health concerns from them. She may have chosen to bring him or had no choice but once he was there, any conversation about her health was off the cards.