To think that most parents find saying ‘no’ to children very difficult?

[Mumbletoomuch]

I’m struggling with the fact my very reasonable friends seem incapable or scared of saying no to their children.

Child wants to eat the last homemade cupcake (second helping) when everyone else has had one? Of course. Just eats the icing off and wastes the rest? Just laughs it off

Child has friends over to play but wants to watch telly for hours straight? Meaning the play date is a TV marathon? Of course

Child wants huge monster slushy at a birthday party, when the hosts have provided squash? Of course. Many other children then start whining at their parents for the same? Of course

Child wants to role play with parent while they’re having a conversation with a friend? Of course. This means the adult conversation is disjointed and pointless, not a problem.

I’ve become self-conscious about how many boundaries and ‘no’ I give to my children, or if it is legitimately annoying and lazy parenting. We go on holidays, we do fun things, I play with them, we watch TV, they eat sweets, but I say no to a lot during the day. I would say no or boundary set in all the above examples.

AIBU?

Personally, for me, any toy is conditional on good behaviour for the day. In this case the child was badly behaved all day and then tantrumed for a balloon which the parent purchased. I have seen this child learn to repeatedly get tantrums for what she wants and the parent won’t say no.

I really can’t stand this either. It also makes the behaviour worse and the child more likely to behave badly so they get what they want. Totally agree.

What’s with all the condescending comments about people only saying yes, or not saying no to cause a meltdown? If I say yes to something that you wouldn’t it’s not because I’m petrified of my child kicking off. It’s because I don’t view things the same as you, I’m happy for that thing to happen.

The etiquette would be to have what’s provided for the party.
Within a group of friends the etiquette would be to read the room according to budget/dietary etc
As a family…your choice.

Because unlike your decision they are attempting to not be entirely selfish.

They are making their decision based on which way they believe is going to cause the least social disruption. Whether that be to say no and risk having to discipline their child in public, or say yes and cause minor disruption but limit any outbursts.

They're decisions are based on choosing the correct social etiquette for the situation, difference in opinion comes from different parenting styles.

Your decision is based purely on meeting yours and your child’s needs, without regard to situation.

They are making their decision based on which way they believe is going to cause the least social disruption. Whether that be to say no and risk having to discipline their child in public, or say yes and cause minor disruption but limit any outbursts.

Nonsense, if I’m not saying “no” it’s because in that moment I’m happy to say yes. I’m not doing it out of any fear of disruption.

I know! That’s why your response is selfish but theirs is not 🤦🏼‍♀️

Is it really selfish though or is it just different standards/boundaries/expectations? If a friend bought their kid something extra while we were at a party or event I wouldn't bat an eyelid even if I knew ds would then want the same and couldn't have it because I don't expect other people to tiptoe round me and my child and I know his reactions are my responsibility irregardless of the situation. It's entitled behaviour. I expect them to do what's right for their child in the same way I will do what's right for mine and rather than judging them, I'll support them and their right as a parent to make their own call for their child. I personally think it's quite selfish to EXPECT everyone to go without or say no to things they want to say yes to in order to pander to your child who's watching. I'd say that's also quite main character syndrome. Which is why the whole argument is so ridiculous- there's no win for parents in this you are literally damned if you do or damned if you don't. Parenting is difficult enough as it is without tearing each other down over minutiae.

I do find (as a childminder) that over the last 10 years parents are more likely to worry about their child experiencing distress or trauma.
Of course on one hand it's a good thing that we have become more considerate of children's feelings, but on the other I hand I see parents really conflicted about things like potty training or teeth cleaning in case the child experiences it as traumatic or it damages their relationship in some way.

Saying No occasionally is harder than saying it often because they child can't understand why you're saying no to them and will fight even harder (and be more distressed).

Children's expectation certainly seems to be that they will mostly do what they want, and if they can't, there should be explanation and negotiation.

I say no pretty often and I often tell children that I'm telling not asking 😂

You're not wrong. There's a huge amount of shit parents out there. Mumsnet seems determined to tell you "it's not my kid", probably is.

This is utterly ridiculous.
So it’s selfish, shit pandering parenting to say “yes” because that means you have a brat, but it’s also selfish if you say “no” because it’s your job to avoid all negative reactions from your children at any point?

I can give you an example, the other day we were in a shop and overhead a mother tell her children the toys weren't for sale, and we had a laugh about that. My friends aunt then said in her day "you'd just say no you can't have that".

As the old saying goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat. If my child is tired or over-emotional and an outright no is likely to trigger a meltdown, it's just common sense to approach the issue in a different way. My favourite method is "Sorry, we can't buy that now, but we'll take a photo and you can add it to your Christmas/birthday list". And then we take the photo, it's added to the list and most of the time the item is completely forgotten about. If my child does remember it and still wants it, often I will buy it for them as in our house we all get a few things we want every now and again, adults as well as children.

Nope wrong again 🤣 it is selfish to make a decision with absolutely no thought for anyone else.
Pretty sure that’s literally the definition of selfish.

That part is down to cultural and societal norms. This is something taught (or not) during childhood.

Someone saying yes or no due to their view of how society is judging them is down to parenting differences.

I’m not sure how to simplify that further. Yourself, Lavender and only a couple of others in the thread haven’t understood the social context. Most have but are interpreting it in different ways…Yes and No

Often there are no ideal outcomes. It's about judging the least worst outcome.

My child woke up with a tummy upset and projectile vomited the other day. I directed them towards my shirt, which already needed a wash, and we managed to avoid the sheets which would then have needed a complete bed change. If someone had told me before I had children that the least worst scenario would involve being repeatedly vomited on, I would have laughed at them 😅.

People know their own children best and judgement is unhelpful in most cases.

@Howcloseisburnout so soft play type parties have strict etiquette to follow - I mean I haven’t been to one for awhile but don’t remember having strict rules.

and aren’t you saying we should always made decisions based on the needs of the group rather the individual but isn’t it far more nuanced than that. The balance between being entitled and being a people pleaser is important.

I have teenagers and you have to put your needs first sometimes - DD got asked for her Snapchat at a theme park the other day and said no. The boy was then teased but she is entitled to say yes. She earns money so she can spend more than her friends who don’t should she not do that? It is sometimes ok and necessary to be selfish and that includes sometimes as a parent making a decision to say yes

i feel like I say no about a thousand times a day to my toddler 🫣

How could you possibly know that? 😂

Everything you’ve said would fall under initiative surely??!

I’m not sure why it seems to be so hard for adults to grasp that these are not ‘strict rules’.
Social etiquette is built up on the societal norms and values we share, usually culturally. Surely you understand that in different countries things are expected to happen differently?

It’s the same thing but with different situations. These social cues are taught to you as a child. It’s nothing to do with needing to be a people pleaser but everything to do with understanding where the social boundaries lie.

I honestly have no clue what the comment about your daughter was about as it seemed unrelated.

The discussion above described three different outcomes, those that said yes to avoid disruption, those that said no to enforce boundaries, and those that disregarded the social situation entirely.

Because she repeatedly said it?? Did you read the rest of the thread??

The discussion above described three different outcomes, those that said yes to avoid disruption, those that said no to enforce boundaries, and those that disregarded the social situation entirely.

Theres also saying yes because of the particular needs of the child, eg needing the sensory input or needing something very cold to avoid overheating.

They fall under ‘yes to stop disruption’ as if these needs aren’t met it could/may cause disruption.
What would happen if in that scenario you said no? Meltdown/Fainting/Medical emergency would all fall under ‘causing disruption to the party’

Allowing a child to have a cupcake that no one has said they want, after everyone else has had one, or buying a drink in a paid cafe bar isn’t disregarding the social situation.
Not everyone has the same arbitrary rules as you all of the time. That doesn’t make you right.

I agree! I can't believe some of the comments on this thread, it's worrying to think what this next generation of kids will be like.

Actually I think you'll find society does have arbitrary rules that most people follow that's why things generally operates smoothly. Initially I thought you didn't care about being selfish or rude, but the more I've read your comments I can see you genuinely don't seem to understand this

It’s fine, the poll shows almost 90% YANBU, so there’s hope.

I think it’s derailing it significantly when talking about SEN and children who have developmental trauma. I’m not such a knob to make these judgements on random people. These are things I’ve noted in my friendship circle where the children are neurotypical with no trauma.

I think it is lack of social etiquette modelling at the core. And like other PPs have said, social etiquette is really important. It’s what ensures a repeat invite, people feeling valued in your company and not taken for granted, demonstrating appreciation and value for what other people contribute. Putting the TV as soon as we walk in your house doesn’t give value to play time, buying your child a slushie undermines the party hosts hosting a party and what they choose to provide for that event. Etc.

I wouldn’t have thought of my friends as lacking in etiquette, but maybe that’s the issue rather than than not wanting to say ‘no’.