AIBU to ask my friend to stop her child pestering people in a restaurant?

[Letsblameitallonperi]

I was meeting up with a friend Zoey today I hadn’t seen for a few weeks, I was really looking forward to seeing her.

We had arranged to have lunch in a proper restaurant (not the usual child friendly places) and I was hoping we could have some wine and adult conversation.
Almost every time I meet up with Zoey she has brought at least one of her two kids and it’s been difficult to talk properly.

It’s frustrating because her husband has even offered to look after them when we meet on a Friday because he has an early finish, Zoey often just laughs and says “oh it’s ok wildhorses likes to spend time with the kids” or something along those lines. Last time her husband could obviously tell I wasn’t impressed and gave me a regretful shrug, he tried pushing it but Zoey ignored him so I know it’s definitely not her husband behind this.

I posted on mumsnet a few months ago and was asked if it was possibly her husband being controlling and making her take the kids or refusing to look after them, I think I can confidently say that’s not the case, the last time he offered he seemed to be frustrated when Zoey turned down his offer and even asked if she didn’t trust him with his own kids, Zoey just laughs and insists I’m happy with the situation.
I was also given advice to suggest just one on one time and say I’d like to see her alone in a more adult environment, I followed this advice and told Zoey I wanted her advice on something I was really struggling with and wanted to talk to her properly as we can never discuss anything when she’s distracted by the kids.

I was surprised she actually agreed and so I wasn’t impressed when I turned up to see she had her daughter with her (it seems to be always her 8 year old daughter Cara she brings) and she said we could have a “girls afternoon”.

I was so pissed off I nearly walked out, I thought I’d been clear and Zoey knows I’m having a really rough time and I just wasn’t up for entertaining her daughter or listening to her many many stories.
I asked where Adam (her husband) was and if he was looking after her other child, Zoey said yes but Cara wanted to come.

It wasn’t a great day, everything we talked about was met with “who is that mum?” “Why did she do that?” “What does that mean?” When I gave up trying to have a conversation Zoey encouraged Cara to tell me all her “news” and I can assure you it was gripping stuff 🤦🏼‍♀️.

I was just going to leave and decided the friendship was over and there was no point having any big discussions or explaining I’d had enough, I realised Zoey just wasn’t interested enough to meet me alone and I wasn’t wasting my free time having “girlie lunches” with a 8 year old.

Just before we left Cara insisted on a pudding and as we were waiting there was a group of 4 women at the next table in their twenties/thirties who looked like they were having a great time laughing and drinking wine.
Cara went over to their table and started talking to them, they were polite but obviously weren’t that happy to be disturbed, after a few minutes one woman said “I think your mummy is waiting for you to go back to your table”
I waited for Zoey to tell her to come back but she waved her hand and said “ohh it’s fine she loves chatting to new people”

Thats when I had finally had enough, I told Zoey that Cara might like it but not everyone wants to be best friends with an 8 year old and that was a polite way for them to tell Cara to fuck off. Cara was out of earshot for that remark but obviously Zoey wasn’t happy, she told me I was an intolerant child - hating bitch who was clearly regretting my choice to not have kids and I was jealous of the bond she has with her daughter.

I’m not proud but I retaliated by saying she was obsessed with Cara and that’s obviously because she wasn’t mature enough to see her friends her own age and that even her husband seemed to think it was odd. I said other friends were absolutely fed up of Cara coming everywhere, sulking when she wasn’t invited to weddings, attempts to bring her on nights out and even spa days, I said she’d made Cara her whole identify and was selfish, boring and I hoped Cara would let her join in at birthday parties and her play dates because her friends were all sick of her.

We didn’t make a scene in the restaurant, it wasn’t shouting or anything, more hissed insults. Cara wasn’t upset and just sat eating her pudding and listening as usual, I’m surprised we didn’t get feedback from her.

In the end I just walked away and I am now cringing at how pathetic it was that two adults in their forties were arguing with a child listening.
I haven’t heard from Zoey and I think I’ll block her, I’ve spoken to another friend who said she knows I’m struggling with a lot and she wasn’t surprised I’d got upset when I’d asked for support from my best friend and been ignored and then made to feel like I was unreasonable for wanting some time with her alone.

The main thing that pissed me off and the reason I posted was the fact Zoey wasn’t just bothered about ruining our day but she would have let Cara stay pestering the women at the next table, it just made me realise how selfish she has become.
I want to know if I was unreasonable for asking Zoey to tell Cara to come away from the other table or if I was just projecting my own annoyance and the women probably didn’t mind that much?
I have had a very difficult few weeks with a bereavement, I’ve just had surgery and I’m having mood swings from perimenopause, I’d appreciate honest opinions if I overreacted or not?

I expect some people will tell me IWBU and it’s normal to love your children and be proud of them, I hope there are a few others though that would have finally had enough and snapped?

This.

Leave her be. She only wants contact on her terms. She just wants you to shore up her prejudices and world view. You are unimportant to her, unfortunately - you could be anyone.

She may recant at some point so the door may be left ajar, but she’d need to initiate contact.

I just read your update about an 8-year-old enquiring after your sister’s divorce - and then had to re-read it to double check that Cara really was the child and not the parent! WTAF????!!! I can’t stand it when people talk about stuff like that in front of their children, it shows a worrying lack of boundaries - not to mention self-awareness! And the fact that Cara thinks it’s perfectly okay to bring it up in conversation… It sounds like your friend has created a monster and I don’t blame you for wanting to cut her off.

Well done for saying something to her. I would be highly annoyed if I was on child-free meal out with my friends and someone else's child came over to our table to tell her stories! I would also be annoyed if I met up with my friend and they bought along their kids without it being obvious kids are invited. We have had this a bit with one friend and it changes the dynamic of the evening.

That's a ridiculous thing to say 'Citroenc1', the OP isn't self absorbed, nor entitled, she asked her best friend to spend some one on one time with her, as she needed to talk, having been through a horrible time lately, but instead of showing empathy, you choose to come on here and say something nasty? Your name isn't Zoey by any chance, is it?

She is batshit crazy and you are well rid!!

I would say you tried and it didn’t work out. I used to want this with an old friend but she always insisted on doing something with the kids I stopped trying. I would not block her but the chances of her reaching out are slim. You have every right to be annoyed you needed support and she chose to bring her nosy kid. It shouldn’t be oh Cara wanted to come it should be her alone or at least having the decency to say she’s coming. You’re not interested in her dd attending your meet ups so let this one go. She will probably regret it one day when her adult friends disappear and Cara is calling her names she’s definitely not going to want her mum around as she gets older.

Info: when you suggested some adult only time, did you specifically say - please can we meet without either of your children?

Because I think Zoe gets an inch and takes a mile. And unless you specifically said something like, i love your kids but could really use some time to talk away from little ears so when are you free to meet without the kids? I think she will have misunderstood, deliberately or inadvertently

Bought a dress? Madness. Shes cookcoo

Goodness, your friend needs to realise she can and needs to go out without DC. Oh my 8 year old wants to come, erm no Mummy is going out for adult time and Daddy is looking after you.

I have friends who are ruled about what their kids want to do so to go for a rare night out they don't come because DC doesn't want them to.

I'm a very loving Mum and DH a wonderful Dad but we need our own time with friends. A few minutes of please don't go is very quickly distracted with fun activities and good and next day they can't even remember you going out! Xxx

I don’t think you have read the post correctly or the previous one (if there is a link).
just to summarise, the friend ‘Zoey’ invites her 8 year old old to every adult meeting. Spa date, night out you name it.
OP has questioned is this normal. I am
someone with children and this isn’t normal

OP tried to arrange an adult lunch. The friend husband offered to babysit but friend declined.
The 8 year old was then found to be pestering other people having a bottomless brunch but toe mother said nothing.

Then comes 'Life after Zoey' which should be more stress-free. Sometimes even best friends have to be demoted !

It won’t stop, OP. I have a friend of many years, her daughter is still coming along to meet ups, she’s now early 20s. She was very much like you described your friends’s DD. Daughter does sometimes go off and do her own thing but inevitably comes back to join us. I understand why my friend is a helicopter parent but I don’t think it’s healthy for her or her DD.

I remember your previous posts OP, if it wasn’t so annoying it’d be funny tbh, Zoey sounds almost comically self-absorbed and oblivious. She obviously thinks she’s mother of the year, but is actually doing a shit job - no 8 year old should be put into this position, she should be off just being a kid, not gossiping with the grown-ups.

Fwiw I have a friend who treated her DD like this. The girl turned into a deeply irritating, mouthy, critical, self-obsessed, smug little so-and-so who could never be told “no”. Her life at secondary school has been quite lonely, she just doesn’t have many/any friends to speak of - only her mum. Needless to say my friendship with the mum has cooled a lot - as have many of her friendships - as it is just insufferable to be around them for long.

You are part of the problem today, you should not allow your child to get in the personal space of strangers! Plenty of people are child free by choice or go out to have child free time! You should never presume that anyone wants your child in their face and it's not safe to allow them to wander off accosting strangers, it takes one pervert to drag them away and you are at fault for not keeping your child with you - we grew up being told not to talk to strangers and yet you want your kids to approach strangers!

People need to appreciate that many people are child free by choice nowadays, kids don't do it for everyone and they should not be approaching anyone! People should be given that respect rather than it be assumed that they want someone's child butting into their conversations and wanting to be entertained.
My partner and I were on a flight last month and a family of 3 arrived at the seats in front of us and the father had not paid to reserve a seat and asked the guy in the aisle seat to swap with him so he could sit with his wife and kid, it was good job the bloke agreed to swap because otherwise this other guys kid would have done his head in all flight!
The kid didn't like sitting his seat and his ignorant parents kept letting him kneel on the plane seat and hang over the back of the seat and invade our personal space! At one point he was pushing biscuits in his mouth and dropping crumbs over my partner's legs before his dad finally pulled him down - with all the stories about sudden turbulence these days and warnings to stay strapped in, that kid was a liability! Any sudden turbulence and his head and neck would have been smashed into the panel above him before.him then landing potentially on one of us. Don't allow kids to bug people and make people feel uncomfortable, not everybody has any interest in kids!

I remember being in the beer garden of our local one Sunday afternoon, there was only my partner and I, a young girl and a man outside . And this kid was constantly bugging this guy and we actually thought he must have been.her dad, this went on for an hour, her not leaving him alone and playing with his dog. Eventually three women turned up and it turned out it was her grandmother and aunts and they were wondering who the bloke was she was with - turned out the bloke was a total stranger and mum was inside boozing and never once checked on that kid! The family sat outside and waited for the mother to show her face outside and that was another 30 mins later! So at least an hour and half, this young girl was hanging around a man she didn't know! The family played hell with the mother!

You don't need to find childless friends. A friend should be a friend irrespective of whether they have children. I'm a mum but I'm still capable of meeting friends, discussing their problems and being supportive with no kids in tow.
Zoey, thinking that a group of women would enjoy having their afternoon out interrupted by an 8 year old, is unhinged. Zoey is definitely the self-involved and entitled person in all this.

@Grammarninja I agree that in Zoey’s case, the issue isn’t really about having children/being childfree. The problem is that she has zero respect for other people’s boundaries and feelings. Like trying to force her sister to have Cara as a bridesmaid when she wasn’t planning to have any at all!

It’s similar to the MN threads about one person bringing their partner to a group meetup that’s clearly intended to be partner-free, you just don’t do it, because it changes the dynamics.

Thanks for everyone’s comments, I’ve just come back to the thread to read through them and I appreciate them all because it has helped me accept the friendship is completely over.

For the people who mentioned the length of the post…
I did say in a comment I’m neurodivergent which is why I was so keen to get reassurance and it’s common for ND people to be a bit long winded so we don’t get misunderstood or leave out details.
I also read so many posts where people only read and respond to the OP so the thread gets completely derailed by things that’s have been addressed and answered. I didn’t want a “cancel the cheque” style post where I write a short OP and then keep answering questions and no one reads the “see all” posts, that’s also why I confirmed early on that it’s the same friend as the spa post so the whole thread wasn’t full of speculation.

To respond to accusations this is just some excuse to create a divide between childfree women and women with kids, that’s absolutely not the case. I have been on mumsnet a long time, post regularly under different user names and regularly write supportive posts for people with and without children. I had no idea until I read some of these comments (a lot were deleted) that there were regular people who post to cause unrest and think it’s ridiculous that anyone has an us/them attitude.
A large majority of my friends have kids and we respect each others choices and recognise different people want different things.
I have no reason to create negativity for people who choose to have children because I’m happy and secure with my decision not to have them. I like spending time with friends children but I don’t see them as my individual friends independently from their parents 😂.
Zoey wants us to see Cara as “one of the girls” (sorry that’s a very cringeworthy expression but how she’s worded it in the past!) and that’s a dynamic that isn’t possible.

I didn’t want to meet Zoey to “dump on her” or just to just moan or be negative. I wanted an equal conversation because I don’t really know much about her life except what can be discussed in front of her daughter. As I said in a pp I have been to parks, soft play, kids parties and clapped and cheered at events and bought Christmas and birthday presents, I’m not asking to constantly see Zoey alone so I can just complain to her or talk about myself!

As for the friendship now, it’s definitely over which is a shame as we’ve been friends since school. I don’t know what will happen as we have a mutual friend group, I might avoid the next meet up and see if she tries to bring Cara and if she does how it’s handled.

I probably won’t return to the thread so again sorry for the long post but I thought it would answer questions all in one go so I’m not posting multiple responses that get missed. Like I said I appreciate every comment and completely agree with the people who said it wasn’t great to have argued in front of Cara.

It seems there are a lot of women like Zoey out there who just don’t don’t see it necessary to spend time with friends without their kids, that’s absolutely fine and no judgement at all if their friends are happy with that, I can understand it completely if they bring their own kids.
To keep bringing your kids to planned adult - only events (especially when others have planned childcare) is a bit selfish and I’m surprised they can’t see that, its also not fair on their child.

You mentioned you have a mutual friend group but you might avoid the next get together. Let us know if you can, whether she is still bringing her daughter along or if she’s eventually learnt her lesson!

It bothers me that both of you argued about an 8-year-old right in front of her. If you look back on what was said, there were some comments that undoubtedly hurt Cara.

It might've been better in a phone call.

@Letsblameitallonperi I honestly don't blame you for walking away, argument in front of the kid maybe wasn't the best but.....

Just trying to understand her dynamic, was she a very young Mum, ie teen Mum, who's never really had an adult life without a child?

Oh no, poor you. Your 'friend' deserved all that. It's a shame you had to challenge her with all you are going through. I'm sure others will support you. That friend's behaviour would drive me crazy.. she is using her daughter for some social prop/ identity purpose...not healthy at all

This would drive me wild.

I really wouldn’t miss the next get together. That will give her the opportunity to force you out of the group altogether. Arguing in front of an 8 year old is entirely her fault not yours.