I hate anti-vaxxers

[An89]

How can anyone in this day and age be an anti-vaxxer? London and West mids currently suffering from a meassls outbreak. DS is under 1 so cannot yet have vaccine, I know of someone whose 10momth old contracted measels as they were too young for vaccine.
Ridiculous that reckless and tardy parents are putting all our children at risk. Actually terrible.

Except they are if they put others at risk. The drop in MMR vaccines has allowed measles to become a concern again, which means the very young or immune compromised/vulnerable are now at increased risk of contracting measles.

But it's not an 'idea', it is literally how business works!

Science is never settled, that's what makes it science.

Which is why pumping money into vaccines seems like a really bizarre step for them to take. One would think the lucrative amounts they could make on curing people when they get these diseases is a far better business model than the relatively small return from making vaccines.

I do not agree that experts should not be trusted to act with integrity, just because they are on a payroll. Integrity is the default; in my own profession I managed to separate my desire to make a living from my intention to act with integrity and ime the vast majority of those I work with manage to do the same.

I just don't believe that most people set aside their morals to make money, or that those in the healthcare business are happily conspiring to make people ill so they can profit from it.

I said clear. But actually, sometimes it is settled. It’s settled the world is a sphere, for example. It’s settled that gravity exists. It’s settled that vaccinations works.
Even if a scientist works for a business their work will be peer reviewed by people who don’t.

Edit: I did use ‘settled’ in an earlier post. Because it’s an accurate reflection of where we are on the idea of vaccination.

Small return? Companies like Pfizer make billions from selling vaccines. Made around $38bn during Covid I believe.

Generally speaking, though, there's nothing really 'lucrative' about these companies 'curing people'. As they say, lose a patient, lose a customer...

So all science researchers around the world working at some of the most esteemed universities and other institutions are on the payroll of big pharma and can’t be trusted?

I think that’s one of the most offensive posts I’ve ever read on MN - and that’s a pretty high bar.

Would you prosecute for any missed vaccinations or specific ones? How much proof of vaccine safety would you require before insisting they use the vaccine to avoid prosecution? I’d never willingly give any member of my family a covid vaccine, but I’m not an anti vaxxer in general. I’m just not up for vaccines that have led to proven deaths.

And that is surely one argument FOR vaccination. There is in general far more of a profit to be made from treating people once they;re sick than from preventing illnesss through vaccination.

In any case no one is vaccinating aganst smallpox now, as that disease has been successfully eradicated.

Nope, didn't say that at ALL. Please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks.

It doesn't take much for people to get offended on here. I literally posted a comment that small pox was already in decline as the jab was being introduced and some people have totally lost their shit. Wild!

That’s not what you did @Jumpingthruhoops
You've repeatedly posted suggesting science experts can’t be trusted because of ‘Big Pharma’.

Have you taken the time to think about why smallpox was less prevalent at the time the vaccines were introduced, and what it tells you about control of infectious diseases?

I gave you some clues upthread but you seem to have gone off at a tangent about big pharma.

You make an interesting point.

People were so quick to label anyone who questioned the Covid jab as 'anti-vaxxers' when they were merely people who had questions about what they were being asked to put into their bodies. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

The argument then, was that we had no long-term data, which we didn't.
It's now 5 years on, so we now have the five-year-data, and it's evident that some people were right to have concerns. And is arguably now why people are questioning traditional jabs.

No, the 5 year data doesn’t suggest that.
There is no mechanism for a vaccine to have long term effects. Other than preventing you dying unnecessarily, obvs.

A fair amount of people, especially younger people, who took the covid vaccine, did die. Just not of covid. Hence why people question it. For the older vaccines there is very little (if any) real evidence that they cause harm or death. I’d give my kids the MMR without a second thought. I wouldn’t give them a covid jab.

No, they didn’t.

Ok… so when the makers of Astra Zeneca admitted in a court document that their vaccine caused blood clots that have led to deaths (70 at least) that was imaginary?

how many died as a result of clots caused by covid?

Doesn't mean you can't count the ones that died from vaccines just because others have died from blood clots from covid. Besides the ones who died after the vaccine may not have even caught covid without the jab. Or may not have suffered blood clots from the disease itself. So you can't really use that argument

Oh so as long as more people have died of something else, then unsafe vaccines are fine? Got it.

Vaccines are safer than no vaccines. That’s the point

For the majority of illnesses I'd fully agree. For people with low risk of covid complications it's less clear cut

Very few people are at low risk of Covid complications in the long term.

This.

Not for everyone. The healthy young people in their 20s who died of Astra Zeneca induced blood clots would more than likely have bounced back from covid like a cold. As a healthy young woman who turned 30 at the height of lockdown and worked in a school throughout, I caught covid once and it was mildly annoying. The vaccine ended their lives.

I’m not a covid denier whatsoever, covid can be very dangerous to some people and those people need to weigh up the risk and reward of vaccination. But for many, the vaccines caused more harm than covid would have.