For refusing to change a 6 year old?

[Bernie6678]

So I’m 20 years old, at uni and working as a TA. I want to be a KS2 teacher. This is my first year working with children, I have no past experience, no children of my own etc. Posting here to get opinions from mums.

Anyway I’ve recently been moved from the year 5 classroom (which I loved) to year 1 and there’s multiple children who wet themselves and one of them actually poos himself quite regularly. No SEN. I understand the odd accident but this is happening a few times a week…
I’ve said I don’t feel comfortable changing children as this isn’t in my contract or job description and I’ve had no intimate care training. (Personally for minimum wage I’d rather not be dealing with poo and changing children).
I also think when a child wets themselves at this age they should be capable of going and changing themselves. We have lots of spare clothes and baby wipes here.

I’ve refused so the teacher or another TA changes the children.

Apparently the teacher has now complained about me because she’s having to do it when her previous TA would do it no questions asked. Previous TA has now had to go off on sick leave.

AIBU? They’re 6 years old?!

Oh love.

That is the teacher pay scale. M1 is £162. M6 is £223.

Also. Spoiler alert. Those adverts (and the people that write them), lie to get staff.

We pay to scale, but don’t employ people with your attitude.

Even if England had an abundance of SS places, there is a right to a mainstream education which means it would be unlawful to refuse to place a child in MS purely because of they are not toilet trained.

Loooool whatever helps you sleep at night! Clearly a lie, when I know people in real life who are paid that hahaha!

Not particularly.

Some incontinent children don’t need specialist provisions. Ours does, and has it. Happily.

It takes time to get that provision when it is needed, so initially the might end up with you. I’m not angry about that, you are.

Yeah, it makes me "angry" to want pupils who have SEN to go to specialist schools so their needs are met. But, ok.

You know people getting paid to scale for less days of the year?

So do I, loads of them. Their daily rate is the same as it would be in permanent employment.

If you don’t like your job enough to be consulting agencies on “Google,” leave. It’s not really mumsnets issue 😂

I love my job, but dislike parents who expect me to change their childs nappies because they failed to teach their child how to use a toilet. *excluding sen/medical needs where senco needs to get involved and make the appropriate accommodations e.g. intimate care plan.

Some children, have a physical need that means they need intimate care, but are academically able for mainstream.

Those children won’t move to SENd provision. Someone will need to meet their physical needs.

There isn’t some holding pen for the incontinent.

I literally said what you've said about intimate care plan in my previous post:

"I love my job, but dislike parents who expect me to change their childs nappies because they failed to teach their child how to use a toilet. *excluding sen/medical needs where senco needs to get involved and make the appropriate accommodations e.g. intimate care plan."

My argument wasn't ever for sen children or those with medical needs, mine were for those who can be toilet trained but parents don't do that.

Academically, they could get bullied for being in nappies - sometimes kids can be cruel.

generally ta help where is needed

a 5/6yr should be capable of taking wet clothes off and wiping theirselves with baby wipes and redressing in clean dry clothes

the odd accident /poo not the nicest rk deal with but part of your job I feel

if it’s a one off

if it’s the same child doing it then parents need to be called in to change but easier said then done

they could be at work. At the shops and be 20/30 mins time

should a child be made to feel embarrassed and stay in wet soiled underwear ? No

so what the solution ?

as someone said above many people get paid nmw to clean up wee sick poo

it’s not the nicest part of the job but does happen and I feel you need to deal with it

sure it won’t be you every time and other ta /teachers take their turn

My argument wasn't ever for sen children or those with medical needs

That isn’t true. In your, now deleted (no, I didn’t report you), post last night you said my DS’s SEN was ‘an excuse’. One post is deleted but the wider context is there for all to see.

But these children with genuine medical continence issues who are in mainstream school will be under the overall umbrella of the SENDCO. Proper provision will be made for them and most will be able to change themselves as they get older. Everyone has sympathy and understanding in these circumstances. They are also a very small percentage of the numbers, which appear to be rising every year, of children arriving at school in nappies because their parents are too lazy to toilet train them, abdicating their responsibility in this area to the hard-pressed teachers and TAs.

I didn't delete any post? What post?

Anyway, I'm done. Unwatching this thread.

One of your ignorant posts last night.

I didn’t say you deleted it. I said your, now deleted, post. It has been deleted by MNHQ.

There are, but generally that’s nursery/EYFS.

In OP’s case - the children are 6 years old. School will have starting intervention and/or conversation with parents by now.

There isn’t a headteacher, who isn’t aware of a legitimate reason, that’s just accepting that 6 year olds aren’t toilet trained.

Exactly, if so many kids in mainstream
schools are not only not toilet trained but unable to wipe themselves and change clothes there’s something going seriously wrong as this wasn’t so prevalent even ten years ago.

We don’t need to look to hard to figure out why this has got so bad.

There was a survey that I think was possibly quoted in the guardian article I posted upthread. And many adults surveyed seemed to think toilet training - among other things - wasn’t a parents job.

I think that says it all. There is unfortunately no way most of these parents are coming into clean up their child when in many cases they didn’t even think toilet training before school was their responsibility.

This is exactly it, parents aren't teaching their children the most basic things like brushing their teeth and how to go to the toilet. There should be more outrage about this, instead of denial and ignoring it. It's neglect, bordering on abuse. Plain and simple. I'd also argue that most of these people will be from the more affluent areas, and not the more deprived areas.

Excellent post

Child needs an intimate care plan and supportive staff to carry it out.

What training do you need to change a child? Watch once then get on with it.

Parents should obviously not choose to both work 90 minutes away from their child's school without any other support person available? Not only for toileting issues, surely in case their child is sick, or has an accident?

It sounds like you should leave.

Are you serious? Do you want all teachers to leave, what will children do then? Who will teach them and what will happen to society as a whole? Honestly, engage your brain and think of the wider implications. It's happening right in front of us now. What is wrong with you? Wake up.

I unwatched this thread, but somehow got this notification because I was quoted.

Okay, I'll leave.

I love my job, this is why I chose to do PGCE thus leave corporate world and educate children. It's super rewarding. I just didn't sign up to change nappies. I understand accidents happen, but I'm not changing nappies everyday.

Not all teachers, no. Just this one. I doubt the sector will crumble without her.

Yup, I should leave because I don't want to change nappies everyday.