For refusing to change a 6 year old?

[Bernie6678]

So I’m 20 years old, at uni and working as a TA. I want to be a KS2 teacher. This is my first year working with children, I have no past experience, no children of my own etc. Posting here to get opinions from mums.

Anyway I’ve recently been moved from the year 5 classroom (which I loved) to year 1 and there’s multiple children who wet themselves and one of them actually poos himself quite regularly. No SEN. I understand the odd accident but this is happening a few times a week…
I’ve said I don’t feel comfortable changing children as this isn’t in my contract or job description and I’ve had no intimate care training. (Personally for minimum wage I’d rather not be dealing with poo and changing children).
I also think when a child wets themselves at this age they should be capable of going and changing themselves. We have lots of spare clothes and baby wipes here.

I’ve refused so the teacher or another TA changes the children.

Apparently the teacher has now complained about me because she’s having to do it when her previous TA would do it no questions asked. Previous TA has now had to go off on sick leave.

AIBU? They’re 6 years old?!

Of course I don't want people hidden away (unless in extreme cases where it may be the only option), but I still dont see why the burden of care falls on the TA.

When i was at primary school in the late 80's to the mid 90's there were no children in nappies. However there was also no children with diagnosed SEN. There was one boy in the nursery who had to sit on the teacher's lap or be carried around as he couldn't walk but he stayed in the nursery when everyone else went up to primary school. There was a boy who was deaf at nursery but he went to special needs school. There were a few children who struggled with reading and wrote some of their letters the wrong way round (at least one was diagnosed with dyslexia in secondary school) and a couple who used to make weird noises and were sometimes disruptive. And there was one boy who struggled to keep up and got 20 marks less than the average when we took the 11 plus.

Now there are loads of children in mainstream who just wouldn't have been there when i was at school. Children with downs syndrome, moderate learning disabilities etc. One of my sons toilet trained in reception, just before he turned 5. He learned to read in year 2 and learnt to write his name in year 4. He is in year 7 now and can write his name but not much else. He is not severe enough for special needs school. He loves it in mainstream though. He's got a 1-1 TA who he adores, lots of friends and is always genuinely excited about each lesson. My youngest is 11. He has autism, pica and is so emotionally delayed he is like a 3 year old. He was out of nappies aged 3 years 10 months though. One of my other sons has physical disabilities. He was toilet trained very quickly but only if i picked him up and carried him to the toilet. At pre school and then school he had a lot of accidents because he couldn't make it to the toilet in time as he walked so slowly.

So many children with fairly significant disabilities are in mainstream school these days. So it's normal for teaching assistants to have to deal with nappies, wheelchairs, tube feeding and all sorts.

Wiping poo isn't teaching.

I hope all TAs refuse to do this.

Because it’s the only way he can access education? The teacher is teaching the class so it’s more likely going to be the person or people who are assisting the teacher with the class.

Just like they are the ones who help him move around school in his wheelchair.

What a shitty school the OP is in where the teàcher reports her instead of coming down strong on the parents who neglect their child by not socialising him.
No sex year old capable of going to mainstream school should not be comf9rtable shitting their pants regularly if they have not been abnormally socialised.
It's the teacher who lacks safeguarding cop on, but she is too concerned that the TA does not want to be scooping up after the child.
Instead, she should be advocating for the child to reach the goal of bed by socially aware enough to not be comfortably shitting himself several times at his big age.
I have noticed that too many middle class parents have become comfortable regarding teachers as a servant class to outsource parenting to whilst not using their privilege to advocate for far better pay and conditions that maybe would go a way to salve the disgust that TAs and teachers feel having to toilette their children that have not been socialised appropriately or cannot be, yet feel strongly that they should go to mainstream school.
The entitlement is off the charts.

So the burden falls on the lowest paid - the TA, not actually any sort of carer, essentially because there's nobody else?

But you said they shouldn't be in mainstream. They could have a designated role in mainstream if they want a separating from the role of ta.

Yep.

My son did have a stoma for a while and the initial plan was for his bowel nurse to train TA’s to change and empty his stoma but it didn’t work as we’d hoped and he had to have it reversed so it became changing his pads instead.

They help him move around school in his wheelchair and they also keep an eye on his central line because if it breaks or is snagged then it’s a medical emergency. He does have a nutrition feed but that’s overnight.

Why?

There is another thread started today where a mother is panicking that she may need to leave her job because her son is not fully continent. Do you really support that?

YABU. My child of a slightly older age still has accidents. He doesn’t have SEN, he has a physical issue.

If a child has wet or soiled themselves, it can be hard for them to take their clingy clothes off without getting in a real mess.

YABU not to sympathise - 6 is so young still, it’s not their fault.

I would question you saying 'no sen'

I would think that there is a medical need there and that it isnt on me to deny an innocent child being put into clean clothes.

This is the new reality tbh, we don't have enough sen schools.

Yabu.

Essentially TAs are expected to function as carers when they're teaching assistants. Surely everyone can see how exploitative that is.

Even with his ECHP, his funded 2:1 are TA’s.

I support TAs not being forced into a role 'because there's nobody else'. Access to education for SEN is not the burden of the TAs.

In law, supporting toilet training, and other independent living skills such as dressing, can be special educational provision. That is why it is TAs/LHTAs/LSAs and not carers.

Yes, and you've already told us how they didn't get any choice in this.
His education is important but that doesn't mean TAs should carry the burden.

You’re not empathic or mature enough to be a teacher.

You have no idea what’s going on with the children, whether it’s undiagnosed SEN, a physical issue, an emotional issue at home or mental health. You have no clue. Instead your first thought is to leave them in their own mess until someone else helps.

You’re not going to get very far OP unless you mature and start to see life more holistically. You’ll likely feel very differently when you’ve had your own children.

Whose fault is it though

not the poor TA or teacher’s

Who should?

"Carers" is a cop-out answer. The pay would be the same as a TA, and their support would be much more limited. If schools could not hire TAs who would also carry out personal care, then perhaps they would try to hire a care assistant. But this would be instead of a TA, because schools aren't provided with a magical money tree.

That was about his intimate care plan, not his EHCP. Two different TA’s are on his intimate care plan, not his 2:1’s.

I also said it was possible they didn’t get a choice but that I wouldn’t ever know, you’ve made the assumption that they see my son as nothing but a burden. We don’t actually know how they feel about him specifically requesting them but he was asked so he gave his honest answer.

Maybe as the teacher you should be sorting this with the parents. People have job descriptions because that's what they are expected to do and if the child isn't getting the care because it's in nobody's job description then that's a service issue not on one person. Your attitude to your support staff is pretty shit, pun intended, tbh.

I agree. The school and parents have to work together to come up with a solution. Possibly that’s to send designated teachers and staff on courses to teach them correct procedures, dos and don’t and there should be a school policy/procedure written.

It should not fall onto a teaching assistant (or teacher) who has not been properly trained in safeguarding measures etc concerning this type of activity, and it’s not in their job description. In this day and age, one well meaning gesture can ruin someone’s career.

Its no one’s fault, no one asks to have medical conditions.

The TA or teacher are the responsible adults in the class, it’s their responsibility to help the child.

That’s exactly what we did. We had a meeting with my son also in attendance and came up with a plan for his intimate care plan.

SENCO asked who my son would feel most comfortable with, he named 2 TA’s, SENCO said she’d see what she could do and they are the 2 now named on his intimate care plan.