For refusing to change a 6 year old?

[Bernie6678]

So I’m 20 years old, at uni and working as a TA. I want to be a KS2 teacher. This is my first year working with children, I have no past experience, no children of my own etc. Posting here to get opinions from mums.

Anyway I’ve recently been moved from the year 5 classroom (which I loved) to year 1 and there’s multiple children who wet themselves and one of them actually poos himself quite regularly. No SEN. I understand the odd accident but this is happening a few times a week…
I’ve said I don’t feel comfortable changing children as this isn’t in my contract or job description and I’ve had no intimate care training. (Personally for minimum wage I’d rather not be dealing with poo and changing children).
I also think when a child wets themselves at this age they should be capable of going and changing themselves. We have lots of spare clothes and baby wipes here.

I’ve refused so the teacher or another TA changes the children.

Apparently the teacher has now complained about me because she’s having to do it when her previous TA would do it no questions asked. Previous TA has now had to go off on sick leave.

AIBU? They’re 6 years old?!

I've no idea, but it shouldn't be the TA 'by default' or 'because there's nobody else".

You are aware that 'burden of care' doesn't mean the same as 'being a burden', right?

As already stated/asked, your son may have had a say but did the TAs?

That isn't relevant to the point i was making. Disabled children shouldn't be removed from mainstream purely due to needing intimate care.

The whole situation is far from ideal, but I think many posters on here are very naive about how many children there will be with SEND in each class, how long it takes to get any kind of diagnosis, EHCP, referral to other agencies etc, at this age must SEND with be undiagnosed. There is so little support available. Of course it’s not ideal for teachers and tas to be cleaning children up, but until proper funding is provided, what is the alternative? We absolutely can’t leave a child in soiled clothes, it would be neglectful and humiliating for the child, and it would be discriminatory to exclude children from education.

No, not by default but because it should be in thei job description for some TAs, because schools really don't have other staff just hanging around waiting for a child to soil themselves.

No but the dc at 6 needs to be pro active

i don’t think the teacher or TA should have to go into the toilet with them. They can pass them a bag and wet wipes and then the parent can come and collect them

That might be fine for some but you also have to account for physical disabilities.

I think that’s when it becomes too much and I would have refused to do it like the OP states

Most children I have worked with will manage that, and I think that is mostly what happens. I’m not convinced there are many 6 year olds being changed as a toddler would be, its
more that they need assistance with toileting. Occasionally for medical reasons they may need more, but I think perhaps people are imagining what happened to be slightly different to the reality. Unless ill though parents can’t be called to collect them, otherwise parents with children with disabilities would not be able to work.

....and TAs shpuld be the default for providing personal care. 🫣

So what do you think should happen for children with SEND who struggle with toileting?

So again, TAs should be doing it because there's nobody else?

Why would the parent need to collect if they're changed?

Our school has children who have toilet accidents every day. The vast majority do exactly as you say, and then go back to class because they're fine in school. A couple have SEN and are not yet toilet trained, and we do change them, in line with our intimate care policy and their pre-agreed intimate care plans. Very occasionally, another child has an unexpected poo accident and needs adult support to clean up. In those cases, we call parents to either consent to us supporting them to wipe or even shower the child, or for them to come in to clean the child.

I've not experienced the OP's situation, with competent children repeatedly soiling themselves. But I would query whether OP not knowing about SEND is the same as there being no SEND.

Yes, but only if they have agreed to do it by accepting their job description. Not in OP's case.

We seem to be going in circles because you don't have any suggestion as who should be doing personal care.

I have never said this and I don't agree that TAs should be the default if it isn't written in their contract. But it is despicable to say that children should be excluded from mainstream school purely on the basis of needing help with intimate care, that is very much akin to saying we should go back to the days of hiding disabled people away.
I'm not going to try to reason with the unreasonable any further.

So many on here saying TAs should just refuse. As far as I am aware, there is a teacher shortage but not a TA shortage. Whenever a TA role comes up at my school, Mums are queuing up to interview as a job in the school their DC go to is perfect. Most aren't put off by that part of the role. In my school they would soon find a replacement.

Boy do I know an 8 year old you can have a go at toilet training.

I know him quite well, he’s my stepson, and trust me - changing him at 4ft6 is no joke. If only I’d known that all we needed was a few months of consistency! 🫠

Check your contract. It normally lists out specific jobs and then the catch-all '...and any other jobs you are asked to do by the SLT'.

Also I'd be pretty pissed off if I was a TA called from another class to come and clean up. It's not THEIR job either so don't expect to make many friends!

If it’s an SEN or continence issue then that’s different as long as they have a letter etc from their GP.

A letter from a GP isn’t required for a child to be classed as having SEN. Nor is it required in order for a child to be protected by the Equality Act, Children and Families Act or the statutory guidance I linked to previously.

As I said before, intimate care, which is anything to do with toileting, has to be specified in an employee's contract. It cannot be grouped under the catch all of 'any other task...'. I went through this in my old job where a boy needed assistance with using the toilet but intimate care was not in our contract so we didn't do it as part of our role

Who did do it?

I’m not sure refusing to meet the needs of a child (you said “needed”) because it’s not in my contract is the flex you think it is.

In fairness, anyone who’d leave my kid in his own mess, I wouldn’t want around him anyway.

However. The linked article clearly states SEN or continence issues should not affect a school taking a child. The article does not state for all kids outside of these parameters where parents simply haven’t toilet trained. There’s a difference and our school sets those rules. I noticed someone else on here stated the same.

I haven’t linked an article. I linked to statutory guidance. The statutory guidance I linked to applies whether there is recognised SEN &/or a diagnosis or not.