To be done with Labour - no money will be saved

[Viviennemary]

I've just seen on ITV news that even if the bill goes through no money whatsoever will be saved. So it all seems a pretty pointless exercise. What on earth was the point of all this fuss and argument. Might have guessed this government would be a disaster. That huge majority and they can't get anything done.

I hate to think what the UK will be like after 4 more years of this.

The fact that the Labour government wanted to put so many disabled people into poverty, that they were actually prepared to lie in public about PIP being removed when someone moves into work, that the only reason the bill was so heavily amended was to save what is left of Starmer's credibility, won't be forgotten.

I watched a one minute interview with Liz Kendall yesterday, during which she managed to tell 3 unchallenged lies about disability benefits and those who claim them. In one minute. No wonder posters like the one you cite are ableist. They're being fed a constant diet of lies, half truths and grim stereotypes and unfortunately don't have the capacity to see past those.

Except the Tories, who had fourteen years to get the economy right.

But didn't.

According to the government's logic, probably yes!

Following your logic.

14 years of Tory ‘mismanagement’ - I paraphrase you.

Versus 12 months of an utter Labour abomination - feel free to list their ‘successes’ since entering power.

Labour are simply not fit to govern.

Yes why is doing so badly in just 12 months great

Pat McFadden said watering down the Government’s flagship welfare Bill will have “financial consequences” in an apparent hint at future tax rises.

The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster indicated that the fiscal fallout resulting from Sir Keir Starmer’s concessions to Labour rebels will be set out at the Budget later this year.

The Prime Minister dropped a planned crackdown on the personal independence payment (Pip) just 90 minutes before MPs were due to vote on the legislation last night.

The U-turn means that almost all of the £4.6 billion of annual savings the Bill was meant to deliver have been lost, blowing a significant hole in the Government’s spending plans.

The Government will have to choose between more borrowing, cuts elsewhere or tax increases to fill the gap.

This is going to get nasty.

Why? Reeves' self-imposed financial rules were never set in stone 0and plenty thought it was foolish of her to tie her own hands like she did.

The bill was never going to save money, it wasn't about saving money. It was a warning shot to disabled people that state support cannot be relied upon. A further attempt to dismantle what's left of the welfare state. Now the government can use the supposed loss of savings to justify other policies such as keeping the two child benefit cap and freezing LHA. See also the decision to continue paying WFA which the government will also cite as a reason why poverty and inequality is inevitable. It's exactly what you'd expect from right wing government which is what we still have.

What utter bullshit, honestly.

Of course it was about finances - please, be serious.

Tax rises are inevitable according to many economists. Analysts at Capital Economics estimate that the chancellor faces a £13bn-23bn fiscal hole in the Autumn because of the benefit and welfare U-turns and the prospect of OBR forecast downgrades.

Reeves’ problem is that Labour’s manifesto ruled out rises in the three big revenue-raisers: income tax, VAT and employee National Insurance contributions. “We stand by that commitment,” Reeves told MPs on Tuesday.

The Treasury has discussed in the past — but so far not implemented — an extension beyond 2028 of the freeze in income tax allowances and thresholds, which could generate about £8bn a year.

Very bad strategy as they’re now playing with big untested tax changes - income tax rises otoh are fairly well modelled….

Of course this bill was about saving money. It was conceived in a hurry to balance the books before the spring statement.

Some posters on here don’t have a clue about finance, and yet they pretend they do.

There’s one tip for them - they should add a ticker for the UK gilts markets to their Home Screen….

If you want to debate with me you're going to have to do so courteously. It would also help if you could consider points of view other than your own rather than assuming nobody but you knows what they're talking about and dismissing them out of hand.

If you can't do that, please don't bother.

Noted.

In your case, I will pass then, thanks.

No, it was a huge waste of time. It’s now higher taxes - no other way. 🙄

They really are bloody hopeless. 🤬

So it was about appearing to save money. Given that the knock-on costs of causing hundreds of thousands to fall into poverty, risking employed PIP claimants being unable to afford to work and making it financially impossible for thousands of unpaid carers to continue in their role would vastly outweigh any "savings" made, it's not hard to see that someone was attempting to pull the wool over our eyes.

To save money, you first need to invest. Inequality caused by poverty, as I have previously said, costs the NHS 50 bn a year. And that is just one sector. How can you save money on disability benefits while people still wait months or years to be seen by medical specialists and have no option but to sit and watch their conditions worsen?

It shouldn’t be this. I hope people don’t just take it and show with votes what they think of going for taxes again.

No, it wasn't about appearing to save money either. It was about saving money. That was obvious in the way it was done. Surely you can see that? The chancellor has lost her headroom. It was rushed without the necessary prep a week before the spring statement. The Chancellor then had to go back for a bit more a few days later when the OBR pointed out that she was still short.

Quite so, TN.

I am not confident that Reeves will still be at her post to deliver the October budget. Someone will need to be sacrificed for yesterday’s shambles, and if the media is to be believed, Rayner is on manoeuvres….

They need some sort of reboot don’t they, again. Credible? Whatever they do with Reeves few look like safe hands.

Surely I can see that a policy that would cost an awful lot more than it would save was about saving money because the Chancellor needed to show she could balance the books?

Clear as mud, and again we're back to the national economy as a household budget where the government runs a bit short and has to check down the back of the sofa for loose change.

Yes agree, but I do think Reeves will stay to deliver the next budget (unfortunately). Starmer will let her carry the can for the upcoming tax rises imo. They need a fall guy, and I think she's it. Not sure she'll last past Xmas though.

There's benefit fraud everywhere. Problem is that the government dont have adequate resources to investigate and identify the fraudsters. All their staff are too busy processing the 1000 daily PIP claims to divert resources elsewhere. You think there is no fraud. I think it's rampant. Just different opinions....

Checking down the back.of the sofa for a few quid is exactly what Reeves did. Why do you think there was no impact assessment, or prep work done?
I give up.

Buckling down for higher taxes now.
Net contributor is now a dirty word. Indeed, we are now ' the rich" and compared to the Beckhams.Why would any young person be motivated to work hard?

Reform will sweep the polls in four years and decimate benefits, including for those who really need it like PP. Thanks to Labour pussyfooting.

Obviously means obesity related illnesses..