To tell the school my child will NOT go to detention..

[Nataliaa]

DD year 7 has been given a 30 minute detention tomorrow afternoon, after school. Since starting secondary, she has received 2 detentions- 1 for forgetting her PE shorts and 1 for not completing homework.
I fully supported the school and the consequences DD had to face on these 2 occasions. She did learn from each time and since then, she has always been organised with PE kit and completing homework.
DD is well behaved, works hard and all school reports have been brilliant so we have no concerns.

Back to today… it is 31 degrees and the school allowed blazers to be left at home, but still expected the children to be in their shirt, ties and trousers (the school recently banned skirts, and does not allow shorts so all children are in trousers. All year round)

During lunch break, DD loosened her tie and untucked her shirt as she was so hot and sweaty… and then forgot to tuck in her shirt and redo tie before going back in.
She walked into English and straight away the teacher told her to tuck the shirt in and do tie, which she did.
Then whilst sat down she untucked the shirt again… she then got up for something and the teacher noticed the shirt untucked and as she had already been told once, she was given the detention.
DD tried to explain she was just so hot and sweaty, she felt she couldn’t concentrate and loosening the shirt helped.. she was then told off for answering back.

I do not agree with this detention at all. Other local schools have let kids go in wearing PE kits in this heat. The teacher was not wearing shirt and tie- she was wearing a floaty and cool summer dress.
I can’t think for the life of me how an untucked shirt would affect DD’s education, and why it’s more important to stick to a strict dress code rather than doing whatever is comfortable in this heat!!

I have never been in the position to disagree with the school, and not sure what would happen if I refuse to let DD go to this detention… also not sure if that’s setting the wrong message to DD, as I always encourage following school rules!!

Any advice? Is this a hill worth dying on? What would you do?

A girl in DD’s school vomited twice on one of the really hot days this week. You don’t get to tell others what is melodramatic or not in relation to their response to the heat.

Late start?

No.

Good grief, you are just reinforcing my point.

How so? DD told me that they keep having room changes as so many of the classrooms in her school are deemed unfit to use in 33 degree heat. Little air con, not even many fans.

How? Are you implying that heatstroke isn’t a thing and that people who suffer from it are faking?

Many children will be overheating in this weather.
I'm not surprised that a child vomited because of the heat.
Why? because children (and teenagers) will be running about like, well children, playing football, and other games, they won't just be sitting down in the shade.
And whilst they are playing these games they won't be drinking etc.
Most of them won't have any water in their bottles when they go back to class (another issue).
So they will be overheated, dehydrated and tired, so some will become ill and throw up.

I think this poster probably thinks she threw up to make a point as she's such a "snowflake". Just your typical child hater.

And of course, they don't want to go to the filthy toilets, or can't, because they are locked and/or they cannot get permission from the teacher, to do so, so they restrict their water intake.

Sorry, I am very supportive of schools and teachers, but the uniform and toilet issues are bonkers, and can be hazardous to a kid's health.

To me, it smacks of authoritarianism for authoritarianism's sake, aping what is perceived to be one's betters (the private schools known for their archaic uniforms and rules and rituals) and a degree of fear that if students aren't micro-controlled, they will run amok. Which is a vicious cycle, because it leads to rules and behaviours by schools that do not engender trust and respect for those rules and behaviours, so they flout them . . . and so the wheel turns.

Add to that, constant fuelling of the fires of mistrust and resentment of schools and teachers by politicians and media, and it's a fine old mess.

The 'preparing for working life' means generally learning how to follow the rules and standards of an organisation, not that school uniform is what they are expected to wear in their chosen career!!

In school you learn to follow a million rules. Adding one about very specific clothing doesn't really add helpfully to that.

Schools consider ties smart - they think they look good and signal discipline to parents. There's no real benefit to the children. Although I guess it means they learn the skill of tying one!

I would write a formal complaint and ask that staff also wear trousers, shirts and ties in all weathers

The irony that uniform and ties prepare them for “working life@ and yet the paid professionals (teachers) float around in light dresses is totally ironic

Exactly! There are two separate issues being conflated here.
Firstly, whether the daughter should attend the detention
Secondly, whether the school uniform is appropriate for the climate.
I think the OP shouldn’t be undermining the authority of the teacher re. the detention. It is a total waste of the teacher and schools time to be dealing with parents interfering in this way and sends the wrong message to the child about consequences for their behaviour.
If the OP wants to lobby for the uniform policy to change then that could be done via the PTA rather than involving that particular teacher.

But you are missing the point. The pupil clearly isn’t a child who normally would answer back or challenge a teacher. She was feeling really hot and the teacher was asking her to ignore how she was feeling and tuck her shirt in and potentially make herself ill. Who, in that circumstance, wouldn’t challenge? I know I would and yes I would expect my children to also. I wouldn’t normally encourage them to argue but in a situation where they felt they were very uncomfortable (and this was an extreme situation) then yes I don’t see a problem with them voicing that discontent.

imagine if she had started vomiting from heatstroke and hadn’t voiced she was very hot, the teacher would have simply said- ‘she never said anything, how would I have known she was overheating’

if there was a fire in the building and the teacher said don’t evacuate but stay but they could smell the smoke in the room, are you really saying that in that circumstance you would expect your child to blindly follow the teacher’s instruction rather than ignore and get out the building?

I think it's fine to say that adults are adults, they get to decide what they do, wear and eat in a way that children don't. Teachers are not the same as students, they are adults in their working environment and so not bound by the same rules as students. For example, the staff at my children's schools can clearly eat what they want on their lunch breaks rather than having the same healthy lunch as the children.

The other side of that is that the school and teachers should be doing everything they can to ensure the children's comfort and wellbeing. If you had a 3yo who was grumpy and overheating in a nursery environment, they'd have layers taken off, they'd be given water and they'd be kept as cool as possible. The same would be done for a primary age child clearly struggling in the heat. And most adults at work could speak up, excuse themselves, take off layers if uncomfortable.

But we seem to have this huge collective blindness when it comes to secondary age children. Their health, comfort and wellbeing appear to be low priorities for schools, but neither are they given the freedom to take sensible steps to protect themselves.

is there anything in the rulz that says clothes have to be dry. Because to keep cool in my sauna of a flat ive been wearing wet tops If i was a pupil and the school did this to me id soak my blouse in freezing cold water squeeze it out and put it on, needs must when you are facing such stupidity

Children are working too. All that says is that children aren’t considered humans in the same way as adults are in terms of their comfort and, yes, safety.

I honestly think that anyone who thinks like this shouldn’t be working with children. Total control freakery at its worst.

The teacher has wasted their own time (and everyone elses) by throwing a hissy fit over something so inconsequential.
My 5 year old sometimes behaves in a way which escalates conflict with my 2 year old over such tiny things. Amazing that so many people are defending an adult behaving no better than a five year old.

Aweecupofteaandabiscuit

Does your 5 year old have a bunch of pissy management types that can turn up out of the blue and scold them and possibly push this further up the management improvement/support plan route?

Ask any teacher how rich they would be if they received a £ for every parent that believed that said behaviour is out of character for their teen/tween. It's not just the money that is forcing good teachers out of education.

Honestly I’m truely horrified by some of the people on this thread

Surely this is not safeguarding the children! We have strict rules re uniform, a children’s organisation, but in this weather I would be reporting a safeguarding issue if the usual uniform was insisted upon by our leaders!

It seems a great shame to me to lash out spitefully at people who care about children’s health and welfare .
Not only can people obviously not learn effectively when uncomfortably hot , a normally polite child speaking irritably to a teacher should raise concerns in said teacher’s mind ( if properly educated themselves ) of the likelihood of heat exhaustion , which can easily progress to heat stroke .

I know. It's easy to see why resilience and critical thinking skills are on the decline in young people.