To ask if you refused to help with older relatives and how that went down?

[Fragmentedbrain]

I have 2 parents and 2 parents in law closing in on needing care. Reading other threads here it sounds as though this has a high chance of ruining my life over the next decade or so.

My husband and I work full time, love our jobs and don't have any caring responsibilities or instincts, not even a cat. I don't want to give up work or holidays or enjoying this bit of my life before I in turn am too old.

If we refuse to get involved beyond visits to say hello, how screwed are our parents?

(As we are child free I am not worried about any example setting although appreciate the relationship with siblings could get tricky)

If they have money they can pay for care they need; if they don’t have money, they can have it funded. Either way, if they aren’t capable of making the decisions for themselves adult social care can assess them to establish the level of care they need. Realistically, ASC are stretched and they won’t have as great an experience relying on them than if they have relatives advocating for them and pushing for assessments and decisions, but they won’t be left to rot.

It’s a good idea to begin these discussions with your parents and siblings now so that everyone’s expectations are managed, and so your parents can begin to put plans in place, rather than waiting until the care is actually needed. I think you’re correct that the main outcome of a decision not to get involved beyond visiting to say hello occasionally is likely to be very difficult family relationships between you and your parents, and your siblings.

Oh I've said they're on their own practically speaking. My parents understand (I am good at cheerful chats not so much at taking you to the chiropodist) but my in-laws won't realise I'm serious. They both have funds but it's the organising (and possibly being expected to look after personal needs at some point) that I can't be doing with.

Well just get your DH to make it clear to your Pils that they need to sort themselves out.

DH needs to have very frank conversations with his parents and siblings then to make it clear that he won’t be getting involved in any way. The two of you also need to have very frank conversations with each other to establish that you’re truly in the same page, and what that looks like: he may feel right now that he’ll be happy to let his parents sort themselves out, but may well feel differently when it actually comes down to it.

I was being lined up as a “helper” for my great aunt
I set my stall out quite early.
Need a ride? Here’s a taxi company…
want help with your shopping? It’s called Ocado….
etc

I told my relative I couldn't visit (help) as I lived 50 miles away, didn't drive and had 8dc..
When she died she left her entire estate including family heirlooms to her carers...
As was her choice but it did sting.. We had had a great relationship for 30+ years before she became infirm...
No regrets though. She wanted the impossible.
For example she asked me to do Christmas for her at her home. My dd was due Christmas eve... I kindly refused and she dumped me. And her nieces and nephews..

This will be us when our parents are elderly (although we do have DCs and a pet!). Both sets of parents moved hours away when they retired, and are therefore too far to give us help with our DCs. In turn they will be too far away for us to provide support to them when they need it. We will be able to visit occasionally for the odd weekend but that will be it really.

Actually, what happens to the old people who move abroad in retirement then come back after 20 years in need of care? I assume the local authority still gives it to them because we are hopeless as a nation at dealing with such stuff?

I'm interested in any answers you get to your question here op, "how screwed are our parents?". It's a worry of mine. DH and I were set and prepared for supporting our parents until some major changes that meant we can't.

If everyone lives their current expected trajectories then I will be on my own fending for myself, and I'm not the 1st in history to be in that position, so part of me recognises that this can be managed, but I am anxious for them.

If they've been great parents, I think it's pretty awful to refuse any practical help at all tbh. I get not wanting to do personal care and being unwilling to wholly give up your own lives in order to be physically present 24/7, but I do think you should be willing to help out with organising their finances or logistics to move houses to somewhere more appropriate,if needed. You should be helping them to find the right support and be willing to make some changes to your own lives, to assist them. Not everything, but the necessary things that require the input of a person who has their best interests at heart. You can't buy that sort of help really - paid carers won't be personally invested in making sure your parents are happy!
Personally, I couldn't be happy just pleasing myself and leaving my parents to just get on with it - I'd be willing to give up the odd holiday or reduce work a bit to be more present, if I had no other responsibilities.

If they've been selfish, awful parents, then I'd agree that you don't owe them anything more than cheerful chats if that's all you want to do.

Your parents have funds so when the time comes they can pay for carers and taxis, leaving you free to be their cheerful, chatty daughter. Your In-Laws are your DH's responsibility so it's up to him how he manages it.

Yeah but the reason I don't have kids is that I hate hate all that stuff. I don't want anyone relying on me. If a social worker billeted an old person in my house I'd just go and live in another city for six months in the hope the problem went away.

I'm not saying it makes me a fab reliable person I'm just saying this is me.

Not really. Kids don't owe parents anything, they didn't ask to be born. OP, stand firm. Parents who expect their kids to help them out are CF in my opinion.

Well, nobody <likes> doing it. That’s why we don’t open our homes to random old people. We do it because they’re our parents and they loved and cared for us.

Most stuff isn’t that much of a chore, certainly not in the early days of picking up stuff. How personal the care gets, depends on a lot of things. Willingness being one of them. My parents would never have expected intimate personal care.

Your in laws need to work out how they want their old age to look, based on what people are actually willing to help with.

stand firm

So those saying they wouldn't do anything, during a visit you wouldn't change curtains, or move a bit of furniture? You wouldn't remotely help with shopping deliveries? I find that very cold tbh. I do that sort of stuff for neighbours. People don't get anywhere near the care packages they need. When I did home care, many people's lives would be miserable if it wasn't for neighbours and local churches.

It also doesn't make you a bad person, just honest. How often to we see on here that people are absolutely not entitled to ask grandparents for help at any time, even for an evening, and that to expect that is being cheeky. IMO the same applies to the elderly: they should anticipate their own care needs, not expect their children to do anything.

I did a lot to support my DF before he passed away from Parkinson’s and now my DM but she knows I won’t be able to care for her physically when she comes to need that kind of care so she is aware she will have to rely on carers especially for intimate stuff

I personally would be happy with that level of help, but no more. I wouldn't rearrange my life substansially to look after ageing parents, no. Are you saying that if you lived abroad, you would return just because your parents are older? Because I wouldn't.

I shan’t be providing care. Happy to advise but can’t get involved hands on. Mum has dementia. Stepdad cares for her. Fit and well but knocking 80. We live 460 miles apart, I’m 61, disabled husband 6 years older. Just about to move to retirement flat, helping youngest child to buy their first home. Eldest happily settled in their family home. Both bright futures. So, this is our time.

Your position is entirely reasonable. People need to think to the future and plan accordingly. It’s hardly a surprise that we get old.

I'm interested in any answers you get to your question here op, "how screwed are our parents?". It's a worry of mine. DH and I were set and prepared for supporting our parents until some major changes that meant we can't.

From what i've witnessed people do need someone to advocate for them & some carers are rubbish.

However people need to prepare for their old age, have difficult conversations, downsize, move nearer etc

Could you not find balance? I’m sure you could fit in a lift to the chiropodist and your holidays? I understand not wanting to do personal care but I don’t believe you could say no to a lift to a chiropodist!

I think if they have been loving and supportive parents then helping out with a bit of gardening or cleaning - yes . But intimate care then no . That’s when carers would have to be involved.

Bit patronising to suggest that older people needs help with organising shopping.
Most have been living with technology for 30 plus years.

My MILs church completely abandoned her as she declined. She’d volunteered in various ways for over 60 years. In and out of hospital for several years, not a single visit. My husband complained to the diocese and was told point blank that wasn’t in the vicar’s remit!!

I think you are 100% right to say that you are not doing personal care and day-to-day fixing of this.

however, if you won't do any kind of general social support, that is tough. sometimes, a person just needs to talk over possible decisions - should I sell now and move to a bungalow or stay and get a carer? what might this option or that option look like? this kind of discussion around life decisions is often the kind of support that parents might give their 20-something adult child. And then in older age, the parent may need the same kind of support. Maybe just saying 'here are some options for a care agency' or 'shall we go and look at possible bungalows together one weekend?'. And then telling your parent they are being sensible when they've made the decision.

if you don't want to do that at all, you might as well be going low-contact or no-contact. Because being a sounding-board for big decisions is part of being a family and caring about others. And stepping away from that does seem rather selfish.

I'm curious about why you say 'I am not a caring person'. why not? could you become a (little bit of a) caring person because then you might be a better person too?