To ask if you refused to help with older relatives and how that went down?

[Fragmentedbrain]

I have 2 parents and 2 parents in law closing in on needing care. Reading other threads here it sounds as though this has a high chance of ruining my life over the next decade or so.

My husband and I work full time, love our jobs and don't have any caring responsibilities or instincts, not even a cat. I don't want to give up work or holidays or enjoying this bit of my life before I in turn am too old.

If we refuse to get involved beyond visits to say hello, how screwed are our parents?

(As we are child free I am not worried about any example setting although appreciate the relationship with siblings could get tricky)

Reasonable point. I’ll assist, mostly remotely as and when I can. Personal care, no. Line in the sand for me (even if we weren’t 460 miles apart).

Exactly.

All my mum needed was a few lifts to hospital appointments for her chemo. She wasn't allowed to drive after her cancer operation.
That was too much for four of her five kids apparently. If we'd all done one each it would hardly have been a burden, but no. Doing one tiny thing for your own mum is too much.

Can’t argue with your own experience at all. In mine, that’s pretty unusual. Don’t see a lift as “care”.

@Fragmentedbrain - There are 2 elements involved in 'helping elderly parents'.

Personal care is one element. That can be provided either by paying privately or being provided by Adult Social Services who may, or may not provide some of the costs, depending on the financial situation of the person needing personal care - and also where you live in the UK: in Scotland ALL personal care assessed as being required is given free, regardless of income or savings. So your parents wouldn't be completely stuffed if they need help with their personal care - although as money is very tight everywhere, it can take time to actually get the care in place and the level of needs will be quite high, if looking to Social Services to organise it.

Life Admin is the other element. That includes everything other than personal care. Managing all the Finances, including paying bills, arranging appointments, transport to dentist/doctor/hospital etc. Organising shopping ( in shop or online), including putting it away. Cleaning, laundry, garden if they have one. The list is endless. A fuse blown in the house which needs sorted. Anything at all which we normally take for granted when we can do them ourselves, which can become major problems when you can't. Much of that, but not all, can be catered for by employing a cleaner/home help/gardener etc. If your parents
can afford those things, then they won't be completely stuffed either. But there is still a lot which will need to be done by someone in the family.

If your sibling(s) are left to deal with it all, it will not endear you to them, but it's your choice. I was left to do it all by my sibling and we don't talk at all since Mum died. Is there nothing at all from the Life Admin you would be happy to do? While I understand how you feel about it, If you have a reasonable relationship with your parents I think you would find it very difficult to actually to refuse to do anything, if you turned up for a visit and something was needing done. Could you really see yourself saying E.G 'No. I'm not interested in helping you by changing that light bulb, I'm just here for a visit'

Your PIL though are NOT your responsibility and you need to make sure your DH knows he will be responsible for sorting out their needs in due course - and stick to your guns on that one!!

I agree. The OP sounds really selfish. Her decision not to help of course but how sad.

This type of dilemma haunts me a bit.

My mum jumps at the chance to provide care for friends and relatives. It's not because she's altruistic. It's because if she saddles herself up to the eyeballs in domestic drudge, she doesn't have to be responsible for her own happiness.

BUT it means she's got unrealistic expectations of what others might do for her if she needed it. I WILL NOT give up my life to care for my mum. I've worked hard to build the life I have and I'm simply not prepared to throw it away.

Thankfully I live 3 hours away and have a demanding job, but it won't be easy when we have to eventually have a conversation about it.

To anyone calling me selfish...yes my life is my priority.

I've set my stall out that I will not be my mother's carer. I am on her LPA, I sort finances out and will attend important appointments but the day to day stuff is on my 2 brothers. One of whom lives next door and the other a few miles away...I'm 2 hours away! Even if I were 5 mins away I'd be the same...due to toxic relationship. I sorted a cleaner and a private carer a few hours a week to help everyone.

However my in laws are 2 mins away and my partners siblings are dead do it's just us. They're pretty self sufficient but we help as needed. They're acutely aware though for the need to plan and wouldn't want to burden us.

Because there is or should ideally be a bond of love, connection and compassion. Human beings are not designed to live isolated in hermetically sealed bubbles.

Problem is they can get there themselves, also to hospital appts there are services for that.

The more they get used to people doing stuff for them the less they think they can do themselves, I think encouraging them to be independent is best.

This is not to be mean. But how did your mother raise you so that you don't feel the need or want to take care of her when she needs it at some stage? As much as I become bewildered by the callous responses and feelings towards parental care, these parents raised their children. I love my mother and could never leave her in the lurch. She always demonstrated love and compassion for others and set a wonderful example.

And its not just lifts to appointments, its accompanying someone, as you might a good friend, to hospital appointments or treatments. Also, I believe people need an advocate when they are in hospital or talking to doctors etc, particularly the elderly or anyone with hearing or memory problems. You cannot buy this from the average care company, sadly.

Yep this. @GreenCandleWax The Church don't give a shiny shite about people when they are no longer going to Church/stop going to Church... I have known of many cases where people can no longer go to Church because of physical health or mental health issues, and no-one from the Church bothers with them, or bothers to find out why, and if they're OK.

I know someone right now who stopped going to her local Church about a year ago because of various personal reasons, and because she was going through a difficult time. Six months later, not a single soul at the Church had reached out to her, phoned, texted, emailed, or messaged in any way shape or form, to see if she was OK. She said personal reasons and stress in her life was the reason for not going for the first six months. The fact that no-one from the Church could be fucked with her that whole time, and no-one made one single form of contact was the reason she never returned.

'So much for Christian love' indeed.

I completely understand why you did what you did.

and why she did what she did.

she probably felt dumped too

Always amazed that some people (like OP) seem to think they're unusual for not liking the obligations of caring, organising stuff etc. guess what? We hate it too! Those of us doing it for parents or partners often aren't doing it out of choice .

My grandfather used to be taken to hospital on transport as my grandmother didnt drive. He had Parkinson’s and could not communicate. He would be collected at 9am and returned at 4pm regardless as to when his appointment was. He would be left sitting in his wheelchair either in the waiting room before his appointment or in the hospital reception area after, until his transport home arrived. No one would think to offer him a drink, food or check if he needed to use the toilet. He came home on many occasions having wet himself. Id like to think things have improved, but the cynic in me doubts it!

It all depends on what you mean by "help", how far away from them you live (and what your and DH's relationships with them is like at the moment).

Living 200 miles away and not wanting to give up your jobs and move so you can help with washing and dressing and drive them to medical appointments? YANBU.

Living round the corner and not wanting to help with washing and dressing? YA still NBU.

Living close by and refusing to help with things like heavy lifting or sorting out modern technology? YABU.

Good for you.

What a heart warming thread.

And there will still be those who say that elderly, vulnerable people won’t feel pressurised to sign up for assisted dying…..😏

Well you are fortunate, parents are not all like this. Mine was not there for me when I needed help, in fact the opposite, blaming me for things and never helping with anything.

I sometimes think people with parents like this don't understand that they are vey lucky and we are not all the same!

Yes I work for a charity for older people and get this a lot, older people returning from Spain etc when their health starts to deteriorate. They can't claim disability benefits for two years but still have access to other benefits like pension credit, housing benefit etc and adult social care services.

My parents were pretty much ok with a little support when there were still two of them they cared for each other and muddled through, even through cancer, COPD and chronic illness.

Surely most people would do what was needed for any human being struggling but especially their parents! (unless there are relationship issues/toxicity)

When dad died mum needed more company and support, she was also a bit less resilient than dad who was fiercely independent. Who wouldn't help support a grieving widow?

Obviously there were limits to what we could do working very FT and with dc in exam years and my own health issues, but along with siblings sharing the load it was doable and wasn't "ruining my life over the next decade or so" it was a privilege to be able to support her as my parents supported me growing up until I was an independent adult.

One thing to be careful of is your PIL are not your parents. It is your dh (and siblings if he has them) job to support them not default to you as a women.

My dad is 88, very independent but looking frailer. he has been very good at sorting out things like Power of attorney etc himself and orders all his own shopping to be delivered himself but we haven't really had the chat about what happens when he needs more help. Fortunately I live two minutes drive from him but it will only be me as my brother lives 100 miles away and cannot drive. due to health. Also he does have a big enough house that he could have a bed downstairs and room for a downstairs if he could no longer manage the stairs. If he started to need me around more I would have to drop my hours ( currently full time), but not sure I could afford to give up completely so he knows he would need to pay for care. He has a decent private pension.
Many older people manage with a bit of paid support at home- cleaner, gardener etc.

This is exactly my experience, me being the sibling who drove 60 mile round trips virtually every day to tend to my DM's practical needs (not personal care which fortunately she did not need). One sibling lived 160 miles away and was happily unaware of DM's daily life and needs, visited briefly maybe once a year. The other sibling lived 3 miles from DM and drove within half a mile of her house every day going to work (self-employed in his own business), yet called in briefly once a week with some groceries, but never lingered. Coincidentally ?!! both siblings were brothers and me their only sister.

The being told by others that of course they are not selfish, really resonates, as this is what my particularly selfish DB lapped up and justified himself with, not just then but later in how he behaved in painful circumstances he caused surrounding DM's death.

Depends on the level of care. They need a lot and the council won’t find a carehome - they will get max four visits a day from carers for about fifteen minutes. So if they soil themselves in the interim they have to sit in it. Also can’t predict the timing of the visits so they may be in bed from 4pm. Sitting in their own waste. If the care needs are less then it is less acute. I don’t think there is a requirement or obligation to help. But if I love someone I wouldn’t leave them in a bad position unable to advocate for themselves. We have all seen the headlines about elderly abuse. This is extreme care needs though.

Who wouldn't help support a grieving widow?

Maybe someone who never got the emotional support they needed growing up? Just a thought.