To ask if you refused to help with older relatives and how that went down?

[Fragmentedbrain]

I have 2 parents and 2 parents in law closing in on needing care. Reading other threads here it sounds as though this has a high chance of ruining my life over the next decade or so.

My husband and I work full time, love our jobs and don't have any caring responsibilities or instincts, not even a cat. I don't want to give up work or holidays or enjoying this bit of my life before I in turn am too old.

If we refuse to get involved beyond visits to say hello, how screwed are our parents?

(As we are child free I am not worried about any example setting although appreciate the relationship with siblings could get tricky)

She has refused to get it and turned on me all day, is she willing to get it now and stop saying people can magic up solutions to working 40?hours a week, being a full time carer and not getting the sack?

So why is she telling me all day that I'm lying because there's a way to be a carer and do my full time job? She won't believe me that I can't just walk of the job, she thinks I'm a liar! I get the impression you've jumped into this discussion without reading anything! Please spend time reading through, because many people are upset by the martyrs telling people that they are scum if they don't sacrifice everything for a parent! This whole topic is full of nastiness and guilt tripping and you'll easily see it!

Good grief @FlyMeSomewhere calm down.

Back off then! Accept people's situations instead of bullying and projecting on to people what you and her think people should be doing! It's easy to flip all this on to me, I've asked people to be accepting for the last 48 hours whilst those people have been rotten towards others! Nobody is evil if a parent gets a taxi somewhere rather than the child having to walk off a job for 3 hours to drive a 70 mile round trip to pop a parent to an appointment half a mile away! It's not rocket science yet people have been upset and horrified at the suggestion! So let's see all the stupidity on this thread end!

FWIW, I didn't give up my job until it became impossible to care safely for my husband and work at the same time. That was largely because of an unreasonable senior manager who didn't like women in positions of authority. He simply kept adding to my workload.

At 57, I went down to a 4 dy week. At 58, I took early retirement. At 59, I testified at my senior manager's employment tribunal.

With regard to my parents, I bought in as much help as possible using their Attendance Allowance and did top things up myself. I had to advocate for them at medical appointments. There was no one else, and a medical appointment is hardly a trivial matter.

I was allowed 5 days' compassionate leave a year and I made up the time later on anyway. At times, communication with medics took place via telephone or email since I had POA.

Dad made it to 86. Mum made it to 90. I was 55 when she died. She lived with us for two years and I did the hands on evening and night time care. We did also use respite care so that - for example - we could have a holiday away while Mum was being looked after.

I was my husband's carer for around 12 years, though the first 4 of those only consisted of advocating for him.

It would have been a blessing if his children had shown a bit more interest in him when he became unwell and then disabled but - to be honest - they were clearly worried that they were going to be "stuck" with supervising his care.

I've already stated in a pp that I never expected them to be hands on, but had hoped that they would advocate for him if anything happened to me - it doesn't have to be all or nothing. We each make our own choices.

When we saw them latterly, it was when they were visiting their mother (and her partner, apart from the twice when she was widowed) and DH paid for a meal out for everyone. At that point, DH told me that he didn't want to invite them to our home for a meal because that would mean extra work for me, both cooking the meal and driving them back to their mother's house. (I have a suspicion that he might have been saving them from my cooking as well!)

I have the impression that one of the reasons that their mother always sought out a new partner after being widowed was she was building her own support system because she couldn't rely on the kids.

In general, I might have missed it but I didn't think that anyone on this thread advocated that we immediately drop our jobs and become hands on carers. Of course that's impossible for most.

As I think that many of us have tried to say, the most important thing that you can do for an elderly person is to advocate for them and to help with the admin side of things.

Yes. You’re right.

For someone who is so vociferous about the choice you have made you sound so angry. You are not at peace with your decision at all, which is perhaps understandable. But it is unfair to take it out on everyone else.

I have come across this attitude so many times. People who choose to have nothing to do with caring get so defensive when making that choice. You ask them if they fancy a cup of tea and they imagine that you are attacking them for not caring. You ask them how they are feeling and what they hear is that you are attacking them for not caring. At least try to come to terms with your choices and stop being nasty. Own your guilt. It has nothing to do with the rest of us.

And please stop calling those of us who are involved with the care of others “martyrs”. It is insulting to us and it is insulting to those we care for.

@WearyAuldWumman I agree that advocating and having someone on your side is hugely important. I only provide hands-on support to my Dad (87) three times a year, because I live in another country. But, thanks to technology, I help organize local support ( I set up his meal deliveries, cleaner, speak to his social worker, etc.) and provide emotional support with daily phone calls. He’s quite capable of getting a bus or taxi when he has a hospital appointment.

No, I wouldn’t move back to the UK and give up my current life to care for him, but I’m still there for him, it doesn’t have to be all or nothing.

She sounds quite upset about sainted martyred bullies trying to shame her. If you're not a sainted martyr bully she obviously doesn't mean you.

But there is no indication at all she is not at peace with her decision, however much you would prefer that.

PS, I did provide some care for the elderly relatives when it was necessary, so no projecting onto me please 😅

I'm so sorry this is happening to you. My friend, let's call her L, had a mum who was becoming elderly and frail and she tried to pull these stunts too, but my friend just kept working and going about her business.

She just kept repeating that her mother go into care as she absolutely could not care for her. Her mum was having nose bleeds, on meds, had started fainting from time to time. The home was the same place her father had gone when he was at end of life and her mother knew it was lovely, but she wanted her daughter to give up everything to care for her.

But L just kept insisting, calmly, that she could simply not leave her job and did not respond when she was at work, at all. She actually couldn't, in her job, be checking messages all day anyway, and after about a year of hounding her, her mum finally gave up and went into residential care.

The place was actually lovely, I visited once with L because we were on our way somewhere else and she wanted to drop in to see her mum first. They had a hairdresser visit regularly, lots of outings, lovely rooms and gardens, good food. Her mum made some friends and was ultimately very happy there, she lived there for about another five years before she passed.

Her mum had never had a career, or even a job for a long time and would not or could not understand that L HAD to work for her own future.

Anyway, every circumstance is different. I can see you are reacting to the nasty bullying martyrdom on this thread. You are doing nothing wrong to try to do the best you can for yourself. Good luck.

The truth is that I really don’t care what you did or didn’t do. You ah e nothing to prove to me. Your choice has absolutely nothing to do with me. But I am so glad that my relatives got the care and advocacy that they needed. And I would wish that everyone who needs it gets helped in that way.

i don’t think that anyone who takes on a caring role should be callously labelled a “martyr”. It is unnecessarily mean and cruel. But it perhaps reveals a lot about the people who choose to see carers that way.

Yes, you're nothing to me either, was just making sure you didn't try projecting nonsense at me. Glad we got that sorted 😅

Nah, if you're a bullying sainted martyr you're a bullying sainted martyr. Lots of people care for their elderly parents without being bullying sainted martyrs, of course. Shame there are so few of them on this thread.

Do you feel better now? And what evidence do you have that I am a bully? It is quite an accusation.

With an attitude like this it is a relief that you do not have a caring role (at least I hope you don’t). Nobody deserves cruelty and insults.

What a weird and pointless post.

So you are clearly stating that you are a bullying sainted martyr then, despite not having been accused of that at all.

Oh wait, are you pretending that when I said "Nah, if you're a bullying sainted martyr, you're a bullying sainted martyr" you believed that I was saying YOU ARE a bullying sainted martyr?

Lol. As you are aware this means IF you are a bullying sainted martyr THEN you you are a bullying sainted martyr. Perhaps I should have said if ONE is a bullying sainted martyr then ONE is a bullying sainted martyr for absolute clarity 😅

Even though I had already stated "if you're not a bullying sainted martyr this does not apply to you".

How interesting that you choose to opt into that group. 😇

Time for bed.

I'm not in the UK time zone, but do feel free to take yourself off to bed, hope you get a good night's rest.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

You are guilty of the same behaviour as others on here! I've no decision to make at this point, my mum may never need care for all I know! Your comment is snide! I am asking people to stop judging people and what have you done? Judged me! You accuse of me being nasty to the point that I'd attack people for offering me a drink? Why lie? You don't even know me! I've nothing to come to terms with! I have a great life, it's people like you that seem jealous! Your comment is nasty! You've proved my point! I think some of you turned your lives upside down for a parent and it's made you miserable and aggressive to those of us not in that situation and for whom have said we just can't get into that situation.

Everything you've said is well balanced and you went about things in a sensible way and didn't break yourself trying to all things to all people.

The issue I've had with one or two on here is that they've kept telling me that if my mum's mobility changed that I have a duty to walk off the job and drive 36 miles to run her to a chemist etc! And they won't believe me that for many of us, we'd get pulled aside at work and told we had to be let go for someone who could be there! I'm in H&S, I have accident reporting hotlines to answer, client deadlines to meet for risk assessments and other h&s support, I don't have the at freedom if God forbid things with my mum changed. I'm mid 40's now and I definitely want to to start winding down in my late 50's like you did. Like you, I would organise what I could for my mum but I don't think it's shameful to try and get whatever assistance we can get locally for her if the time comes where she needs it.

This is just an anecdote, take what relevance from it that you will.

When MIL finally had her formal diagnosis of Alzheimers and mixed dementia, some months after she moved in with us, late DP and I were invited to go on a locally run "Carer's course".

On the first day, we joined a mixed bag of fellow Carer's, in a typically institutional room, you know the sort, painted piss yellow in an attempt at cheer, enhanced by a cacophony of posters and leaflets, all with the relentless and vaguely threatening undertone of making sure your loved one "lives well" with dementia.

We sat round with cups of weak tea and a plate of digestives. The course leader, a pleasant middle aged woman, with the resolute air of a battle hardened veteran, asked us to introduce ourselves and tell everyone a little bit about our loved one, and our situation.

Every single person managed to say their name, say who they were caring for, and then the tears started. Every single person just broke down. I had wondered what the several boxes of tissues were for. Obvious really.

My point is - at some point, most people will find themselves in a difficult position with seemingly impossible choices. Feelings of responsibility, fear, sorrow, and living grief underpin the exhortation to "keep calm and carry on" dealing with systems that promise - on paper - but don't deliver. Dealing with a million bureaucratic hoops around money, appointments etc etc. Trying, always to find "the happy medium" between "laissez faire" and "martyrdom", apparently.

And often with a backdrop of a terrified relative looping suicidal ideation because they have just enough cognisance of their diminishing capacity to appreciate the horror that is consuming them. And their Carer's are powerless and bull dozed through it with suggestions of twiddle blankets and distraction techniques, and fear of failure because despite every intervention, an organic brain disease is chewing through neurons and being regarded as a social inconvenience.

So, I suppose I'm appealing for those in the same boat - whatever the reason behind a need for care, because it's not always dementia, it could be cancer or any other debilitating disease - to take a breath and stop judging the oars people have to use to keep paddling. It's a race to the shore while the boat is leaking. And then when you reach the shore, you're alone, because Death has relieved you of the burden. And the combination of guilt, regret, and yes, trauma, because the twilight years became a perpetual dark night of the soul never leave you completely.

We do what we can. That is all.

Goodness! The cup of tea comment was a general observation and not aimed at you specifically. But you do prove the point so thanks for that.

We do what we can. That is all.

This is so true. With something like Alzheimer’s it feels as though you can never do enough in a way. You just try your best.

I have to say that I thought that caring would impact on my career and it did for a while I suppose, but when the person I was caring for passed away my career skyrocketed to a level I had not anticipated. And the caring role was partly responsible for that. If you can find a way to make it bearable for you and the person you care for it doesn’t have to have a destructive effect on your life. It really doesn’t. In fact when I reflect on it the worst thing about caring was the people and services around us which made caring so very difficult. The person I was caring for and the things I did for them were the least of my problems.

That's lovely that most of you do as much as you can for your parents. It's the least we can do for raising us and making us the people we are today.

Have a good day all!