To ask where I can move that won't have depressing random nutcases and law-exempt criminal youth around every corner

[Fragmentedbrain]

I know it's nice to have a social safety net and I want that but we don't have it now it's just unfunded chaos and the press moaning about public sector workers.

So, Switzerland? Singapore? Where is feasible (in my forties so recognise that I'd need to make a damn good case for myself). Somewhere boring and hardworking with rules and clean streets and a health service you can access and no toleration for the stuff that's everywhere in the UK now.

I am prepared for the answer to be hard cheese you left it too late and now just need to stay indoors as much as poss until the sweet release of death.

I love London and will sing its praises all day long, but Whitechapel is an absolute dump.

If these jobs are so "skilled" why is the pay low?

I don't begrudge people who are disabled (physically or mentally). But I hate this working class self pity. If you don't like how much you're getting paid, go do something else. Upskill yourself, take a course. Not all "working class" jobs are low paid. Take plumbers and electricians. Look at train drivers.

The pay is low because we don’t value them. You think care work is unskilled? You think we could do without refuse collectors?
Im not sure how you’ve arrived at ‘self pity’ either.

Of course you know why. You walk the streets in Whitechapel and you feel like you're in Pakistan.

I'm ethnically South Asian myself and I don't enjoy Whitechapel at all.

It’s not fancy. But it’s not unsafe to walk around (alone, at night, older woman).

Did you venture out of Zone 1/2?
Out here in Zone 3 it's overflowing bins, fly tipping, random non recyclable crap placed next to recycling bins, half eaten sandwiches on bus seats, empty bottles floating in park lakes, cigarette butts everywhere, chicken bones all over the place, plastic bags stuck in trees.....

I get that. I was just saying that people who do get out in the evenings exist.

It’s always going to be different to live somewhere. I left my car in Hendon, though I realise that’s fairly ‘nice’.

I think anyone can be a refuse collector, there's not much too it.

That's the thing - the OP has a dream of an amazing utopia to live in but once you get into the general residential areas of anywhere it's always going to be different to city centres/tourist spots.

Well yes. But someone has to do it. Why should it mean they can’t afford a decent life?
Anyway, the point originally was about whether the working class voice is the only voice. It emphatically is not.

We have a benefit system that encourages the worst people to have lots of kids, who of course they then raise to be violent, ignorant and anti-social like themselves. And we seem to have virtually open borders. The politicians have made it perfectly clear they are not going to do anything about mass immigration.

Goodness me, @Dappy777, it's hard to know where to start with this.

Benefits for children are capped after the second child, and have been since 2017, so the benefits system certainly doesn't encourage large families. Quite the opposite, in fact.

As for "open borders", we lost the Dublin agreement rights with Brexit, so we can no longer return asylum seekers to the first safe EU country they came to, so you can thank Brexiteers for that. Many of those who come here legally are working in essential areas like the care sector, where they are much needed because British people don't want to work unsocial hours in challenging conditions for a few pence more than NMW, and the NHS.

I live in the residential area of somewhere, unsurprisingly. It’s fine.

I know what you mean. Denmark or Finland, or perhaps Luxembourg?. If you’re wealthy enough or have key skills, it’s possible to move almost anywhere in the world. Otherwise, it can be challenging.

From family experience,Denmark is very clear that if you move there you integrate and conform to their culture or you’re not welcome. Some regard this as racist. I don’t. They have pride in their country and culture and wish to preserve it and not import anti-social attitudes. You will have to learn Danish. There’s an expectation that you will engage and assist in community endeavours. Many people are members of clubs whether sporting or crafts or organising community events.

Me. I am out in the evening alone, all across London from Zone 1 to 5. I don't have much of an imagination though and as I said, possibly look so scruffy that nobody has ever bothered me.

That's also kind of the point....most of the UK is perfectly fine !
Not utopia but not dystopia either.
Just a normal place that's mostly nice.
(with quite a lot of litter 😂)

Hendon isn’t that nice! I have a family member there and it’s fly tipping a-go-go in her street, unfortunately. And lots of cafes with Afghan men hanging around in the evening, which isn’t much fun to walk past on your way to the tube of an evening.

Hey, Whitechapel is amazing. It's a bit crowded around station but step to the side streets and there's lovely houses. Plus the gallery, independent cinema, loads of places to go out towards Bethnal green, Brick Lane etc. And a super rich, interesting history. And sometimes you can buy 8 avocados for a quid!

It's hard physical work in all winds and weathers. What's your point?

@EvelynBeatrice we lived in Copenhagen and yep it’s exactly like that - people don’t seem to be questioning though whether the OP can just move ‘anywhere’ - you won’t be getting into Denmark without an EU passport, company sponsorship or a spectacularly ‘in demand and shortage of skills job -and still need sponsorship’ these days - and if you lose your job they are quick to boot you out too if you are non EU. They have hugely tightened up -

Not in the bit I park in. I’m not bothered by ‘Afghan men’ anyway though. I figure most people from most places are absolutely fine. Plus remember if you are from Afghanistan and in this country, chances are you disapprove of the current leadership there…

I go out in the evenings and I'm nearly 70!

I went out in the nearest city last week, got the last bus back to my town and felt perfectly safe walking the half-mile or so from the bus stop to my house after midnight.

It requires no skill or thought. Just get the rubbish put it in the collector.

I don’t see how posters can claim that nothing has changed.

Midlands towns - used to have a prosperous class as well as lowly residents (that would be my antecedents!). Now - well - Luton? Bedford? Leicester? They are horrible . Run-down, dirty, dreadful shops… And certainly do not feel safe to walk around in the evening.