To think we are hugely lucky to have been born in a time and place that is somewhat equal and somewhat free for women

[Fragmentedbrain]

And that women who come after us will decreasingly enjoy this status

Seriously, I'd love to hear arguments that this will extend in time and place

I don’t believe that you see arseholes hanging out. I think you are describing a short skirt in a hyperbolic way to be derogatory about something you disapprove of.

if you let the exception blind you to the rule, your cognition is off. Most women dress modestly.

if you can’t see that you have a problem.

I said arsecheeks, and yes i have seen many women on the street with skirts so short that you can see their arse cheeks.

It's their choice to wear what they want.

The same, if a woman covers up, it is hwr choice to wear what she wants.

Women may be choosing to wear particular types of clothes but my questions are:

Are those their real choices made from free will? The pressure from community & family, on all of us, are subtle but powerful and we don't always realise we are on the receiving end of it.

What about the young women students I used to work with who told me about overt harassment from other girls in the class to try and make them conform to particular ways of dressing? Young women being called out as "loose and easy" because they wouldn't wear hijab. It takes a lot of courage to resist that when you're 17 years old.

The wider issue isn't what women are wearing. It's the women who can't speak English and arent allowed to classes to learn because it keeps them tied into the community and reliant on male relatives, who can't advocate for themselves, aren't allowed out without a male relative even to shop, girls of 17/18 who are withdrawn from college courses to disappear into the home to help mum, women who have less status in the home than their 16 year old son who can say what his mum can and can't do, young women who are still afraid that they are going on holiday to be married to someone they hardly know and without any choice in the matter.

I came across all of these situations during my career teaching in a community that has a high percentage of people from ethnic minority groups.

@umberellaup Absolutely this. ALL women should have the right to dress however they choose.

It may be less unequal than before, but it is a long way from being equal. The two most supported political parties currently have never had a woman as UK wide leader, for example.

From my experiences, yes.

I've seen arses out too. It's horrible to see.

That’s your belief. I have my response, and my belief. It doesn’t tally with yours. I don’t think walking around swathed in loads of cloth with it tightly pinned to your scalp and under your chin is pleasant in any way. It looks like prison and a very unfortunate situation to be in. And my opinion is widely held. Not least by lots of women who have set themselves free from opressive garb and scalp fungus and heat rash’s as a result.

That's what I feel as well but I was wondering if there was data to back it up

You said that women can dress however they like.

Doesn't that mean that you think that women wearing burkas are okay aswell.

You said "women can dress however they like".

Most men I feel dress respectfully. They will usually wear a shirt and a pair of trousers. Young women will wear the teeniest skirts and dresses possible and then demand that "people shouldn't be looking" if someone comments that their underwear is showing.

Women that are doing it all at home are married to someone who doesn’t step up. My mum was born in 1935 and worked full time as a nurse her whole life. My dad (who also worked full time) frequently took me to and picked me up from school and often cooked dinner / cleared up. I was told growing up I could be anything I wanted to be and despite being from a v working class background (first to go to university etc etc) education was viewed as the path to riches. I would not have married someone who expected me to look after his housekeeping needs as that was alien to me. There are def things wrong with my marriage but sharing the load isn’t one of them. I think life was easier and actually more equal in the early 90’s though. There are definitely sections of society that want to keep women in their place.

There was a thread a few weeks (or even days ago) where a woman was defending her daughter's "right" to roll up her skirt at school

Young women definitely dress in an extremely sexualised way in England, and young men do not.

That is true.

I think women are influenced by culture, peers and the fashion industry, to wear sexual clothes.

I hate wearing skimpy bikinis on the beach.

Last year, I bought a pair of men's swims shorts, and they were so comfortable.

Why are women told to wear a piece of string , while men can buy nice long shorts. If you try to buy women's shorts they are all tiny.

This year I bought men's shorts to wear. They are so comfy and i like the longer length.

I won't be dictated to by the fashion industry anymore about what are men's clothes and what are women's clothes.

@alsohappenedoverhere But likewise, couldn't we argue that the role of a SAHP is to do the lion's share at home if partner is sole provider? But I totally agree - if both parties are working ft then of course the load should be equally shared.

Yes. If a woman wants to wear a burka, then it's their choice. It isn't my choice for me, frankly I think it's absurd to wrap yourself in clothing from head to toe in beautiful sunshine- I'm definitely a bikini on the beach with my arse hanging out kind of woman- although, I can get behind the idea in the winter.

I don't understand why they are all black though. What's wrong with bright cheerful colours, floral, stripes? Anyway, if someone wants to dress in funeral colours from head to foot, then it's their choice.

What's makes a bikini any different to underwear? It looks very similar

Young women definitely dress in an extremely sexualised way in England, and young men do not.

That is true.

This is a football match. Glad you think this is modest. I will do the same next time I attend one!

As someone who has read about Islam it's about not drawing attention to yourself

It doesn't stick to you like cotton when it gets wet.

But it looks practically the same right?

If everyone chose bright colours, no one would bat an eyelid. I would argue that dressing head to toe in a black burka in the UK draws attention to you, particularly in areas where it's not the norm as you stand out.

Dressing to blend in with the local norm is less noticeable.

No, it's a different material and looks nothing like underwear.

Bikinis of course look like underwear. It looks like a bar and knickers

Only if you are an uneducated oaf.

It's like saying a t shirt looks like a shirt because it covers the same part of your body.