To think we are hugely lucky to have been born in a time and place that is somewhat equal and somewhat free for women

[Fragmentedbrain]

And that women who come after us will decreasingly enjoy this status

Seriously, I'd love to hear arguments that this will extend in time and place

Most animals don't hurt other animals for no reason though. They do it to survive. Humans are unique among animals in our level of senseless cruelty. Some primates, like Baboons and Chimpanzees (notoriously violent) are comparable. Other primates, like Bonobos, are more peaceful. Bonobos have more female leadership, so I'm sure that's not a coincidence.

I don't know. Rape (which is not to survive) definitely happens in the animal kingdom.

I had to save my female dog from male dogs several times. When my dog didnt want them, the male dogs turned violent

It's similiar in humans - a lot of male violence towards women happens after women reject them.

What’s your problem? It seems you want me to feel and think differently than I actually do. I think hiding under loads of fabric because of men is very sad. Are you telling me I’m not allowed to think that? I’m not allowed to feel that? Or I’m not allowed to say that?

They have been taught something, yes. I’d like for them to have an equal amount of alternative teaching so that their “ choices” are genuinely choices rather than indoctrinated compliance.

I really disagree. The male immigrants in my town don't respect women. They've touched me and followed me.home late at night. I know they don't see me as equal to men, otherwise they'd have respected me the first time I'd told them to leave me alone. Ive heard the derogatory names they call girls and women. I also know women aren't equal in their culture, so no, the UK isn't equal for women.

Who said you are not allowed to say it. You said your opinion and i said mine. That is how people have a discussion on here. I am interested to hear more of your thoughts.

Why do you think they are hiding 'because of men'?

The women that I've talked to who wear those clothes have told me that they feel personally more comfortable when they wear it, they said that they don't like to show skin, or they've told me that they do it to bring them closer to God.

Why should a Muslim person not raise their children along with islam? A Muslim person genuinely believes their religion is the truth and that anything else is falsehood.

Do white British men tend to respect women more?

It does happen but it's not common in dogs and even more rare in felines. You're actually the first person I've encountered who has had to save a dog from gang rape. Wow, that's horrible! Is your female not spayed? It's rare for a male to even approach a spayed female sexually, another difference animals have with human males. For example, I had an unspayed female once and every male in the area that wasn't neutered was trying to dig under the fence to get to her. It stopped when she was spayed.

Another aspect is that other animals don't have the ability to develop moral and philosophical beliefs, so it's not the same as it is with humans. A human rapist knows it's considered wrong to rape, knows it causes harm, but does it anyway. He's deliberately trying to cause harm, whereas an animal would just be following a mating instinct in an aggressive way, because it has no concept of harm or right/wrong.

Yeah, but they would say that, wouldn't they. It could just be a rationalization in some cases. I don't believe for a minute that every young girl from a Muslim family is fine with the prohibitions that are put on them, not just in relation to dress, but other rules as well. They probably want to have fun and feel free just like other kids. Grown women who (at least on the surface) have freedom of choice is one thing and forcing young girls to wear those garments is quite another.
Mind you, the same could be said about evangelical Christians and Orthodox Jews, among other religions, only their rules are not immediately visible like traditional Muslim dress codes for women are. So they seem to get more of a pass on their sexism, which they shouldn't IMO.

I think they should be allowed to wear whatever they want.

If they want to wear a headscarf or burka ,fine.

I think western women think that these women are controlled by men about their clothes, more than they are.

Any woman that ive spoken to ths
At wears a burka, has told me that she really enjoys wearing it. That she likes being safe, modest and protected. People dont HAVE to show skin if they dont want to

Still way off equal. Let's start with titles and name changes... but then, who is to blame for these misogynistic practices still existing?

We obviously know that they think “ anything else is falsehood” . It is this lack of respect for others faiths that is so out of place in the civilised world.

Safe, modest and protected you say.

why do these women think they need to be hidden to be safe. Who is threatening their safety!

modest, most women dress modestly, it’s the norm. women swathed in fabric like this often wear so much make up and overdone false nails too, much more make up than normally dressed women. Why do they load up on the make up? Does it make them feel safe, modest and protected?

protected? From what? What does being swathed in fabric and having fabric pinned to your head protect you from?

what is the psychology here of imagining threats at every point that you have to hide from and seek safety from?! Paranoid much? Or do they come from a culture full of violent marauding males incapable of respect and decency?

I'll argue your points.

You wrote "most women dress modestly".

No they don't. I see schoolgirls with their arsecheeks hanging out, every time i go down the street.

If i go out at night, i see women wearing literal bra tops out in the clubs. Most women do not dress modestly. Its their choice, but what you wrote is incorrect

The woman who cover up feel safe because clothes can protect us.

I feel safer going out in the street in a big puffy jacket than i do going out in a bra top and miniskirt . I don't like to show too much skin.

No one should be forced to show skin. If they want to cover up, it is completely their choice.

Religion cannot be forced in Islam. But I completely understand a Muslim parent raising their child up with Islamic beliefs. The same way a Christian parents will raise their child with Christian views.

🙄

@Boliviabae And likewise, nobody should be forced to cover up. If women and girls want to wear miniskirts and little tops, why on earth not? Men need to sort themselves out, not women.

Why is it "empowering" for women to dress immodesty and flaunt their bodies to the world?

Luck has little to do with it.

Those of us old enough to qualify as hags will tell you that the "status" we are lucky to enjoy was fought for long and hard over centuries; and that this status cannot yet be taken for granted.

As long as successive generations of women continue the fight to defend the rights we already have, and to challenge male pushback, we'll be OK.

@Fasca Who used the word "empowering"? I used the word choice. Women should be able to make that choice. Do you think men like to "dress modestly"? Not, thought not. Why do you think that is?
You know what? I'm 44 now and have had three kids. I regret as a younger woman not embracing my body and covering up as much as I did. I didn't do this "for men" - i did it because I lacked self-confidence - but if I had my time again - heck, I would be rocking those miniskirts and little tops! 😀

@Rhaidimiddim But most still don't? Let's take the title and surname change upon marriage as just one example. I'm very much in the minority still as a married Ms Myname.

I mean most men when going out out dress up smartly. Wear a nice shirt, wear a nice smart pair of trousers etc.

Young women are all so keen and eager to show the world their underwear.

I always feel grateful that I wasn't born in the days where they burned people at the stake and used medieval torture etc. I can't imagine I'd be doing anything other than living in a permanent state of terror.

Fuck off with your "flaunt their bodies to the world". This is not Victorian England and women can dress however they like.

Why do men not feel the need to cover their entire bodies, including their faces to avoid flaunting themselves to the world? It's this kind of bullshit that reminds of why we don't yet have equality.