To think we are hugely lucky to have been born in a time and place that is somewhat equal and somewhat free for women

[Fragmentedbrain]

And that women who come after us will decreasingly enjoy this status

Seriously, I'd love to hear arguments that this will extend in time and place

I've put that you are being unreasonable.

It's not luck. Our rights have been hard fought for- people have died in the fight for equality, and yet we are still not completely equal yet. As we have seen in Afghanistan, Iran, Iran and now are seeing in America, these rights are far easier to lose than to keep.

Rather than give up on this fight and leave when life was hard, my family stayed and stood shoulder to shoulder with others to push for those rights, so it's no accident that I was born here.

You'll probably get flamed for your last paragraph, but it does contain truth. We just have to look at what's happening in Sweden and Denmark.

Did you work hard for your rights? No. You're lucky to be born after someone else who did (and was lucky in turn to born in an era that was receptive).

Yes I do feel lucky, and it is lucky for me that I was born when I was and benefited from women having fought for and achieved the rights we have. That's not the same as saying that women as a sex class achieved those rights through luck.

Women are equal under the law. That's the main battle won imo. Then everything else is a question of actually enforcing those laws and demanding better for ourselves. I really hope we continue doing so.

I have to say though that I think it is important to remember that history was horrible for almost everyone. Most men didn't have any power either, were told to go fight in stupid wars, and died horrible deaths. Power was held by a very small elite.

Unfortunately - considering Musk wasn't elected but was handed massive political power and Bezos just rented the whole of Venice for his wedding - I think we're moving back towards those times.

I'm very concerned by the rising wealth inequality. I think it is incredibly dangerous to everyone's rights and freedoms.

Yes, I'm thankful that I was born and raised in a country in which my sex hasn't been a barrier to education or place in the work force, that I retain personhood with my marriage - practically and legally and a whole host of other things that fly under the radar.

There are so many places in the world where these freedoms that we consider basic don't even get space to be considered as a concept.

100%, and it really upsets me when younger people seem to think this is all done and dusted. Far from it...we need feminism now as much as ever.
I think about the freedoms I've enjoyed compared to my grandmother's - just absolutely poles apart. Feel so lucky, but those freedoms were hard fought for, by others before me.

Exactly this.

Women have been imprisoned and literally died for the right to vote.
The right to equal pay, equal rights, safe abortions, contraception, maternity leave, getting a bank account or a mortgage without a man's signature...all these things have fought for, not given.

I think the fact that's even a question means if you're born a woman you are not one of the fortunate ones. Obviously there have been improvements to our rights by comparison with women in times past. However I think I'll wait and consider myself 'lucky' when my rights, experiences and privileges hold up in comparison to a man's.

Yes, and we must be constantly on our guard. As PP said, large numbers of males from countries where women have less rights or freedoms are here, who knows how many of them would like that for the UK?
Look back to Afghanistan a few decades ago to see how women used to have rights to dress without bieng covered, and to leave the house to work compared with now.
There is every chance our freedoms could go backwards if we are not careful.
Our rights were hard fought for, and we need to keep them.

If we are playing the top trumps game then I'd rather be a woman in this country than a man in many other countries though. Or a woman with a good education and income in this country than a man who has had a crappy education and limited to a poor income in this country.

The more I think about it, I would say that class and not sex is probably the bigger determiner of wellbeing in this country by a country mile.

In countries where men are poor and have limited opportunities, or are victims of the class system, do you think that their sisters have a better time, or a worse time?

No, I don't, where do you think I said that?

I used to think that but it seems to me increasingly that a lot of women women end up doing just about everything, especially when children come along. Work, childcare, housekeeping, life admin. Doesn't look very free or equal for many.

I didn't think you'd said that. Just wondering.

There comes a point where you have to take personal responsibility for your life, though. It's your choice who you have a relationship with, it's your choice if you have kids, it's your choice who the father is. You can make choices so that you don't end up doing all the work, childcare, housekeeping and life admin.

I read so many threads on here like that, and I wonder why? Why is the bar so low for men, and why do so many women put up with it?

Or perhaps she's unlucky to be born into a world where her sex meant her rights were ever in question. We can be extremely grateful for the work of the women who went before us, without reducing the rights they won for us as 'luck', like we've ended up inheriting a special treat. Our equality belonged to us always, and was kept from us. Women before us fought to have what was ours by right and women today continue to do so. When rights are gained its not good fortune its the least we should expect.

😁 Alright. Well feel free to ask about anything else that I didn't say on the off chance you can whittle it into an argument.

Thanks, you've just expressed what I was about to say. 👏

Women in the Uk aren’t treated anywhere near being equal.

Im not going to sit and be grateful larger crumbs.

I wish that I did not agree with you.

No need.
Really, no need.
I am interested in the class arguments which have often - not always - ignored the needs of women. Your response really isn't justified.

None of the rights we have (in some parts of the world) were kindly bestowed because men woke up one morning and decided we could have eg the vote and equal pay. They were fought for. Also, like the aftermath of the Black Death accelerated the destruction of the feudal system, the World Wars, appalling as they were, put women in roles and situations it was hard to pull back from later and advanced the cause of equality. It took all that.

I'm grateful to the women (and some genuine male allies) who changed things but we are not there yet. Billions of women are still controlled and oppressed and as we've seen even in the West, the hard won and relatively new rights we have are under threat.

Won't even go there with what some women are still willing to put up with in domestic terms, such as the unfair division of labour. The work in progress needs to continue in every aspect of all our lives and in all generations.