Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think we are hugely lucky to have been born in a time and place that is somewhat equal and somewhat free for women

196 replies

Fragmentedbrain · 25/06/2025 21:09

And that women who come after us will decreasingly enjoy this status

Seriously, I'd love to hear arguments that this will extend in time and place

OP posts:
prettygardenflowers · 25/06/2025 22:21

MiloMinderbinder925 · 25/06/2025 21:48

I think your bar is very low.

I agree.

There really are so much gaps in society between men and women, I’d like to think this gap will close with future generations and new outlooks.

Even just basic day to day with women working equal hours to men yet still usually have the mental load of organising/planning for the kids, housework, grocery shops, cooking etc

The bar is low for expectations as a Dad in society compared to the role of the mother.

finallygettingit · 25/06/2025 22:25

I agree OP we are extraordinarily lucky and I bless the women and men who fought hard for what we have
I'm moderately optimistic that what we have won't be taken away (handmaid's tale notwithstanding)
many of our gains -even recent ones- are totally embedded and younger people seem to have no idea that women for example once lost all their property on marriage, couldn't divorce without losing their children, be raped by their husbands etc etc
I know we have recent examples of countries that became more liberal and progressive only to be easily returned to the dark ages (I'm thinking Iran and Afghanistan)- but I just can't see that happening here

I recognise the story from the PP of the uncle 'giving permission' ...probably not a lot of hope for that generation, but the daughters and sons, who go to school, will see a different way of living and for the girls at least it will be preferable.

Fragmentedbrain · 26/06/2025 09:19

To all the people who say it shouldn't be lucky... It still is, though!

OP posts:
GluttonousHag · 26/06/2025 09:27

I wouldn’t deem it ‘lucky’. I’m in my early 50s and I spent my late teens fighting for reproductive rights and stickering public toilets with abortion information. Every right we currently hold has been hard won, by women’s sacrifices, bravery and hard work. And, incredibly, some of the women who fought for this seem unable to grasp that their actions now are contributing an erosion of womanhood as a legal category, with associated rights and protections.

Nevertrustacop · 26/06/2025 09:32

Yes we live in the best of places and times to be a woman. But also one of the best of times and places to be alive as a person. Male or female.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 26/06/2025 09:37

GluttonousHag · 26/06/2025 09:27

I wouldn’t deem it ‘lucky’. I’m in my early 50s and I spent my late teens fighting for reproductive rights and stickering public toilets with abortion information. Every right we currently hold has been hard won, by women’s sacrifices, bravery and hard work. And, incredibly, some of the women who fought for this seem unable to grasp that their actions now are contributing an erosion of womanhood as a legal category, with associated rights and protections.

This is what a lot of people don't understand. They're happy to deride feminism while reaping the benefits. What gains we have, came from tireless campaigning and women fighting tooth and nail to get their voices heard.

We have a VAWAG crisis in the UK and the patriarchy are fighting back. Perpetrators of misogynist violence are getting younger and younger. Primary school children aren't safe, women are suffering from poor mental health because of shouldering the whole burden of the family yet we're lucky...

neverbeenskiing · 26/06/2025 09:42

MidnightPatrol · 25/06/2025 21:29

Why will women in future not enjoy the same freedoms as women today?

I think that’s an overly negative outlook.

If the polls are correct and our next Government is led by Reform then this has deeply concerning implications for womens rights, in particular reproductive rights.

Lucillebatwings · 26/06/2025 09:43

Compared to how we were treated in the past, and to how women continue to be treated in some countries / cultures, yes I agree with you @Fragmentedbrain

However, women still have the short straw. We are lucky enough to work now, but not lucky enough to get the support we need to run and manage the family home while we work.

Working mums (and many of us have to work to get by) are now the equivalent of an employee who does someone else’s job on top of their own for free!!

I sometimes wonder if I would have been better in the 1940’s and tied to the kitchen sink.

Thelnebriati · 26/06/2025 10:05

In the 1940's you would have had back to back pregnancies. Working women are in a bad situation because men don't want to step up. They want a 2025 working wife earning and contributing, while also doing the free labour of a 1940's wife.
The workplace hasn't changed, men haven't changed. We're not there yet but we are still better off than our great grandmothers.

sanluca · 26/06/2025 10:21

You say it yourself. Somewhat

Not even taking into account the whole debacle about the word woman meaning someone of either sex, somewhat is setting a lowbar. Do men have 'somewhat' equality?

HelenaWaiting · 26/06/2025 11:30

No. We shouldn't feel "lucky". I doubt that men feel lucky to have rights and to invoke them. We should never be thankful for the crumbs we get from the patriarchal table.

MuckFusk · 27/06/2025 02:02

Fragmentedbrain · 26/06/2025 09:19

To all the people who say it shouldn't be lucky... It still is, though!

As a PP said, it wasn't luck. Women have worked damn hard for our rights. Luck is when it's not of your own doing. We are lucky to not be born in Iran or somewhere similar, but that's where the luck part of it ends. I think that might be why you're getting so many answers saying it isn't luck.

MuckFusk · 27/06/2025 02:02

HelenaWaiting · 26/06/2025 11:30

No. We shouldn't feel "lucky". I doubt that men feel lucky to have rights and to invoke them. We should never be thankful for the crumbs we get from the patriarchal table.

Exactly.

LilacWineIsSweetAndHeady · 27/06/2025 06:05

Thelnebriati · 26/06/2025 10:05

In the 1940's you would have had back to back pregnancies. Working women are in a bad situation because men don't want to step up. They want a 2025 working wife earning and contributing, while also doing the free labour of a 1940's wife.
The workplace hasn't changed, men haven't changed. We're not there yet but we are still better off than our great grandmothers.

Most women throughout history have not had back to back pregnancies.
Whilst not as reliable as today's methods of contraception most couples had ways and means of avoiding pregnancy if they wished to do so.
I am not saying accidental pregnancies didn't happen (they do now!) but this idea that a woman was permanently pregnant and had no way to avoid it is not correct.

spoonbillstretford · 27/06/2025 06:09

Definitely. There is a long way to go but I'm glad I live in this era and being born in the UK is a good hand to start with.

Stolenyouth · 27/06/2025 06:23

Yes we are very lucky.
I do spend a lot of time pondering if men can be really happy if women have rights and independence. Many of them can’t cope. There is a reason why virtually all societies and religions focussed on keeping women dependent and helpless. It’s what the bigger and stronger humans preferred.
The men’s rights people do love to tell us that we are not happy and it’s not natural to want to live a life which isn’t serving men and families. The biggest insult to their mindset is being single and happy. We still have to fight and not be complacent.

dottiedodah · 27/06/2025 06:26

I think we have a long way to go TBH.women are still doing the childcare and house chores.often with ft jobs!.Men are seen as so "good" if they do "help".it's worrying that so many girls are ahead of boys at School. Later on the pay gap still there , more women have smaller pension. Usually primary carer for DC if divorced. 2 women a week killed by partner. Lots more injured.Rape convictions at an aa time low.So no I don't feel "lucky As a middle age woman ,I worry when seeing young schoolgirls. Porn is a dreadful cancer on society as well .We have a mountain left to climb!

Velvian · 27/06/2025 07:04

YABU, not remotely 'lucky'. I would have to believe that I'm less valuable, important and less human than a mediocre or less than mediocre man to believe myself 'lucky'

Men in the UK, the NHS, workplaces still don't quite believe that women are human beings with a sense of self, but they will pretend to when they feel like it.

Many 'good men' (aka absolute shits) think women are just 'better' at seeing what needs to be done and caring for people.

I don't feel lucky, I want far more thanks. Even abortion is an interesting one. I wonder what percentage of uk abortions are due to coercion by men, I suspect it is a really high percentage. I think there must be a lot of men in the US whose carefree sexuality is being complicated by the abortion ban.

wastingtimeonhere · 27/06/2025 07:34

dottiedodah comments are on there, women also need to lay some new rules, how often do children become 'my children' when splitting instead of 'his children' too, we become primary carers by default, the few women who reject that are frowned upon by other women too. We will never be truly equal whilst defined by our reproduction.
Importing large numbers of males who also view women misogynistically will also set us back. We have enough of our own to deal with, without adding to the numbers.

BogRollBOGOF · 27/06/2025 07:45

We need to appreciate what we have (on a global and historical scale) and understand what can be better and what is fragile.

It is now possible for a British woman to have an equal education, an equal career and an equal family life. She can be lucky and avoid systems like the justice system or family courts that haven't caught up yet. Most women aren't living that equal life in the way that men do, but it can be possible in a way that it wasn't until recent British history and isn't through much of the world.

In Britain we don't have the same form of Christian culture that's affecting women's rights in the USA. We also don't have a culture that legally enabled segregation in recent generations. That gives me hope that we won't follow American politics.

There are problems in the UK with social expectations for example over fair division of paid and unpaid work in households. These aren't legal issues, they're insidious social attitudes. This is a widespread inequality. There's still a lot of internalised misogyny. Women still don't feel equally safe to go out and about and commonly restrict their timings and locations. If we are victims of harassment or crime, we don't trust the police or justice system to support us. Conviction rates are poor. Misogynistic men are currently emboldened.

There's a long way to go to true equality. For every step forward, there is a push back.

Out of all the places and times to be born female, here and now is a good place to be in the grand scheme of things. I have better opportunities than my mother and grandmother. It's very much not perfect, and my life as a woman is better than many. I am lucky to have been born where and when I was- that was something I had no influence over. Being appreciative of what I have and critical of what could and should be better is also important to make progress and avoid regression.

Shimmyshimmycocobop · 27/06/2025 07:47

I do feel lucky that I live in the UK compared to say Afghanistan. However we have a long way to go to become equal human beings to men.
The thread over on FWR about the national scandal that is maternity care shows you how little emphasis is put on womens health compared to men.
Having children and then getting divorced it really hit home for me how deep the inequalities between the sexes are.

YourAmusedTiger · 27/06/2025 07:50

I completely agree @Fragmentedbrain and I dispair that particularly women don’t realise how unusual and precious this is. I grew up in Ireland and it was such an oppressive country for women at the early part of my life. Women unbelievably colluded so much in the harm that the faced and they enforced the patriarchal structures very much in the Handmaid’s tale Sr Lydia fashion. It is night and day when I go there now to see how far it has come.

But watching them hand off their rights so easily under the guise of progress is so depressing. Iran, Afghanistan show just how quickly it can all disappear again without vigilance.

ConcernedOfClapham · 27/06/2025 07:53

MidnightPatrol · 25/06/2025 21:29

Why will women in future not enjoy the same freedoms as women today?

I think that’s an overly negative outlook.

I don’t think that’s what OP meant, i interpreted it as they’ll take them for granted, so won’t appreciate what went on before

ParmaViolletts · 27/06/2025 07:55

Free for some op that's the unfortunate thing I saw a lady head to toe in a burka in that 30 degree heat the other day.
We have a two tier system here where some woman know their rights and freedoms and others are told the opposite

BeatrizBoniface · 27/06/2025 07:59

GluttonousHag · 26/06/2025 09:27

I wouldn’t deem it ‘lucky’. I’m in my early 50s and I spent my late teens fighting for reproductive rights and stickering public toilets with abortion information. Every right we currently hold has been hard won, by women’s sacrifices, bravery and hard work. And, incredibly, some of the women who fought for this seem unable to grasp that their actions now are contributing an erosion of womanhood as a legal category, with associated rights and protections.

Thank you very much. I was just coming on to say this.
Like you, I have been a feminist activist for many years, and campaigned for our rights. These have not been easily won. It has often been a bitter and dangerous battle. I hope that women continue to defend our rights.