To think we are hugely lucky to have been born in a time and place that is somewhat equal and somewhat free for women

[Fragmentedbrain]

And that women who come after us will decreasingly enjoy this status

Seriously, I'd love to hear arguments that this will extend in time and place

I don't agree. I know a few women who dress like this and they told me that it's their choice.

They told me that they dress like it because they like to feel safe when they are out.

Their choice to dress how they want, is the same as our choice to dress how we want

Born 1958.
In 1978 l was sexually assaulted on a night out... ( rape by two guy) .
Went to the police.
Male interviewers..
Questions asked.
Why did l feel the need to wear a short skirt.
Why did l have bright red lipstick on.
Was l wearing tights/ stockings or bare legs.
Was l drunk.
Was a flirting.
Was l egging them on sexually.
Why did l have a low cut top on showing my cleavage.
Did l accept drinks from them.
Did l dance with them.
Clearly it was my fault l got raped.
I ended up going to the well womens centre for std testing and counselling.
Turns out l had ghonnerrea ..
Yet still l felt l couldn't take it further or go to court.
( Remember the Yorkshire ripper? If you saw the programme.. the women interviewed were treated the exact same) . I'm from the same area.
Have things changed? I don't think so
. Three years ago my daughter was a subject of revenue porn.
Still waiting for court date.. she wasn't treated much better.
Don't think what year we were born is any different today for women

There are more women than men. In a world where bring strong no longer matters men should feel lucky to be equal never mind still outrank us in every way.

Honestly it's madness. Where votes matter then anti women legislation only gets in because some women vote for it.

I am realistic at this stage.

I know that Men abuse women - because they can.

Most men avoid talking to women about how much men abuse women. They usually deny it.

But i had one conversation with a man a while ago that stuck with me.

He was talking about how men treat women on a wider scale and he said

"im going to be honest with you. Men abuse women because they can. If you are going to abuse someone who are you going to abuse? You are going to abuse those that are physically weaker than yourself. Men enjoy the power and why would we give up the power that he have"

It made me think that humanity is exactly like the animal world. The bigger animals hunt and hurt the smaller animals, and we need to be realistic about it

Its exactly the same with humans. The bigger humans (men) hurt and hunt the smaller humans (women). We need to be realistic

@Boliviabae , surely humanity has moved on from men following natural instincts to "hurt and hunt women"? Men have the power to think, reflect, plan and control their actions. They are not victims of their base desires and impulses.

Stockholm syndrome. The fear and paranoia behind believing that dressing like that is the route to safety is tragic.

No, I don't think it has moved on at all.

Why do you think it has moved on, when we see so many news stories about men hitting, raping and killing women every week?

Yes they are influenced by their culture. As many people are

But what is the most important is their choice to wear what they want. I would never tell another woman what to wear.

If we think a woman is being oppressed by what she is wearing, and then we tell her that she shouldnt wear it, we are also oppressing her. We are also trying to control her

It's her choice - what she wears.

Because not all men choose to behave in this way. I know "not all men" is a cliché! However, my husband and adult son never act in this way, and never would, so some men can manage to live without violence against women.

Yes not all men.

But enough do - that it impacts women's quality of life.

I think that's a very interesting conversation - women's clothing is so sexualised and seen through male perceptions of what women are. I've heard those comments about Islamic dress before, and on the flip side, current fashions for clothing which is very revealing. Can we dress for ourselves? Is it all about how males see us?

Oh, sure - I definitely agree with that.

I like being around men, but i would like it if there was a female only island that you could go to for holidays.

A place to have a break from men. To feel really safe.

I also would like female only spaces on trains and planes. Optional. You could sit in them or sit in mixed. Ive been groped too many times on public transport.

That would be lovely. So relaxing. We'd definitely be relaxed about what we wear and where we go.
In Japan they have women only carriages on trains.

I haven’t told her what to wear. Are you trying to stop me having a response to seeing women in hiding?

You might have better men in the next generations though. It is hard choice however for many people to choose singleness over disrespect.

I completely agree. As women, our generation has been very fortunate. We have benefitted from the work of the generations of women before us

I am 62 years old. I went to grammar school, then read a business degree in the early 80s when fewer people (and certainly fewer women) had places.

After graduation I rented my own bedsit.

Then I bought a flat, without needing a guarantor for my mortgage.

I had a technical career that allowed me to travel to 36 countries

I came home in my 40s and had a child, but did not get married

I split from ds' father,(because he tried to insist I give up my career) I continued to work full time all the way through.

I have raised my son while having fairly easy access to childcare and wrap-around care (although it was starting to fall apart by the time he was in year 6 and it was expensive).

My ds got a scholarship to a private school, that didn't bat an eyelid that I was a single mum.

Soon ds will head off to university and I will retire because I have 44 years NI paid, and a small private pension that I started paying into when I was 22.

I have raised ds to see women as equals. He will get bloody short shrift from me if he ever indicates anything else.

I didn't write the word "you" did I. I wrote the word "we". I was talking about all of us, not you.
I do think that western women telling women in burkas what to wear, is controlling them. It is her choice.

"In hiding"? The woman is just wearing clothes that cover her up. Which she is entitled to do.

She doesn't HAVE to show skin. All women have a choice.

Correction : "Our generation in England"

Women in other countries definitely still don't have a lot of rights, in this generation

Yes, absolutely

Or maybe they just have a love for their faith (islam) and do what they believe brings then closer to god

How presumptuous it is to ask that question and then answer it for me. I have indeed done activism. Lots of women have.

Besides, what difference does it make? Women did that, so women, as a sex, weren't lucky that it happened. Whether any individual woman personally took part or not doesn't change that. Women, as a sex, should not feel it was luck. Individually, otoh, is another story.
If the question was if we felt grateful to those who came before and paved the way, the answer would be different.

The problem with that reasoning is that men who do their share, aren't misogynistic, porn addicts, cheaters, selfish in bed, or whatever, are so hard to find. So it's often a choice of being single or being with a useless man. I choose to stay single now, but then I've already had and raised my kids so it's easy for me to do. It's not so easy for young women.
Besides, most useless men don't show their true colours until the first child is born. They figure their partners are stuck with them so they can take advantage.

Right, because men come with warning signs which say; "Won't do his share when you have a baby."
It's almost always a shock to women how lazy and entitled they're partners become after the first child is born.
The bottom line is we are only responsible for our behaviour, not men's behaviour. It would be great if we could predict the future and know that our partners will be lazy, cheat, be abusive or whatever.
Speaking of which, let's apply your argument to abuse. I'll rewrite your comment to apply it.

"There comes a point where you have to take personal responsibility for your life, though. It's your choice who you have a relationship with, it's your choice if you have kids, it's your choice who the father is. You can make choices so that you don't end up getting the shit beat out of you."

See a problem there?

Exactly.