To think all MNers hate men?

[Corriganscans]

I’m a lesbian so I don’t date men and I like women both to have relationships with and as a species! I’m a feminist and share some of the views on men that seem to be very prevalent on MN. I don’t hate men though. I actually feel a bit sorry for boys and young men today growing up in a world that is very critical of them (a view which I’ll probably get flamed for which’ll further prove my point!) I struggle to understand some of the clear contempt and, often what appears to be hatred of men from straight women on here. How do you date/fancy/fall in love with them if you have such negative views of them? Or is it just that every single woman with these views just happens to have one of the good ones? I doubt it. Isn’t it not that different to a misogynistic straight man who hates women but is happy to date them (thereby pretty much objectifying them for their own needs)??

I don't think it is all men. The bad ones are more likely to be the subject of threads and discussion.

I don’t hate men personally but I think that sadly, most people’s views are formed from personal experience.

I don’t hate men, women, children, dogs or cats.

But nor do I love all of them.

MN is a self selecting sample - few people start a thread to tell us how wonderful the man in their life is. We come here for advice, to vent, not to spew misandry.

I've noticed a bias - if a man hits a woman he's scum, if a woman hits a man he must have provoked her.........

But I wouldn't say that we all HATE all men, no. Just the abusive wanker ones.

I'm not keen on women, apart from my sisters.

I think lots of posters are from a generation who expected men to be a bit more evolved than they've turned out to be. I love lots of men - my partner, brother, friends - but don't love a lot of the selfish, immature behaviour that some of them exhibit.

A number of close friends and family have wanted children then left their wives when the kids were toddlers and it was tougher than they expected. Others have just been such shit partners, leaving all the work and worry to the women and half assing everything but their careers. All ostensibly fairly liberal lads who I thought would want to parent fairly and equally.

That's left me quite angry and disillusioned. And it's why I don't have kids.

I ❤️ men. Couldn’t eat a whole one though.

No not all MN’ers hate men. I do kick myself for falling for emotionally unavailable man children who strung me along. But I accept my part in that too.
There are lovely men out there. Many women only post when they’re having challenges. You don’t often get to hear about the ones who are great, because women know they are and keep hold of them!

There are some wonderful men in my life. Its possible to love men individually, but recognise that the collective behaviour of men (including those in positions of power) leaves a lot of be desired and is often to the detriment of women and girls.

Of course you're unreasonable. As you said, many Munsnetters are married to and/or the parents/childres/friends of men they love and respect.

And they often have different opinions on things too...

But considering the massive generalisation you make about women - that you 'like them' (what, all of them?) ... 'as a species' (!) - then I suppose it's not surprising that you expect others to generalise in the same way.

I think a lot of women on here and everywhere really have unrealistic expectations of men. They are less complex than us and some women expect them to be mind readers and think the same way as us and its just not possible. I'm not saying all men are bad or rude or stupid they are just wired differently to us. Men can be great, i love my husband more than life itself but i do not expect too much from him.

Lol - it's not the falling in love that's the problem for straight women OP, it's what comes after.

So many men are completely happy to exploit a woman's unwillingness to see her children suffer in order to have an easy life.

Eventually, though, many women realise that they are not loved in any meaningful sense. They're there to shop, cooks, scrub the toilets, wipe up the sick, look after the kids in every regard and have sex with. If a better one came along and they could have her, they would.

Lots stay because they're conditioned to need a man or because they have internalised the idea that their value is related to having a man.

But eventually many leave. And by speaking to other women or seeing endless similar stories on Mumsnet, they realise that they didn't have a faulty one - it's endemic.

Even nice middle class liberal men (lol) will allow women to do all the shitwork and pretend they don't see it. So few willingly work as a team.

I don’t hate men but experience has taught me to be quite fearful of them.

I find them pretty disappointing in general.

I don’t think women are negatively generalised in the same way men are. Of course I don’t like all women but as a group they are not seen as negatively as men (for good reason imo)

To address some of the other responses re women who start threads about the shit the men they know personally have put them through - that’s not what I’m talking about. Everyone has beef with other people they know male or female. I’m talking about views on men in general

I think it's the opposite. We think men are our equal, and therefore capable of behaving like considerate, thoughtful and forward thinking adults. There is evidence for this perception of their capability, which is that most of them hold down paid employment, many in highly skilled or pressurised environments. We know they aren't idiots.

Yet look at how so many of them behave - lazy, uncaring, blind to practical tasks (unless they have a personal interest in them), and often like another child within the family.

It's just such a fucking disappointment.

That's really convenient for men, though, isn't it?

And given the fact that men have had more societal and economic power than women since the beginning of time, and still do (the data shows), wouldn't the more obvious answer be 'men exploit women to their own advantage"?

Rather than 'for complicated neurological reasons they can't understand why women want them behave as if women mattered as much as men.'

Why would I hate the chief jar-opener in my household?

He certainly has his uses. Well, use.

Yep, we hate them all. I hate all of them, including my husband, four sons, brother and all my other male relatives and male friends and colleagues.

Sweeping blanket statements are never true, nothing is that black and white.

I have noticed a bias too- it's acceptable to criticise men's looks but not women's.
There was a thread about Sophie Ellis Bextor and many comments about her husband were horrible things like minging.
That wouldn't happen about a woman, or there would be a massive pile on.

Try harder OP.... 🥱

yep, every last one of them should be rounded up and put against the wall.

I don't hate men. My DH is lovely, and so is my son. True gents. BUT....I do have issue, with the fact that men are the cause of most of the world's problems. They commit 98% of violent crimes. They start wars. Look at Khamenei, Netanyahu and Putin. Three stupid men, hell bent on violence, I could bang their heads together. And these are old men, who should be wiser. I think there would be more peace if all nations had female leaders.

If anything I see lots of MN'ers falling over themselves to excuse, justify or minimise the shit behaviour of men.

Maybe he's depressed, maybe he's neurodiverse, maybe its your fault for being "hard work", maybe he's tired, maybe you're expecting too much, maybe you should have explicity told him in words of one syllable and then followed it up with an email that you expect him to get you a present for your 40th birthday, he's not a mind reader!

The bar is set very, very low.

I don't like men and I am not apologetic about it. As a sex class, they are dangerous and abusive.

I don’t hate men at all. I was the only female in the house growing up and generally prefer being with men to women…. I tend to get on better with them.

I think I have a low opinion of men generally, based on personal experience, social data, and observation. The good ones stand out.

I also no longer have a reason to pretend that I don't see all that, as so many women have to in order to have the relationship and family that society still tells them is the mark of female success.

It's like a sex-wide Stockholm syndrome.