To think all MNers hate men?

[Corriganscans]

I’m a lesbian so I don’t date men and I like women both to have relationships with and as a species! I’m a feminist and share some of the views on men that seem to be very prevalent on MN. I don’t hate men though. I actually feel a bit sorry for boys and young men today growing up in a world that is very critical of them (a view which I’ll probably get flamed for which’ll further prove my point!) I struggle to understand some of the clear contempt and, often what appears to be hatred of men from straight women on here. How do you date/fancy/fall in love with them if you have such negative views of them? Or is it just that every single woman with these views just happens to have one of the good ones? I doubt it. Isn’t it not that different to a misogynistic straight man who hates women but is happy to date them (thereby pretty much objectifying them for their own needs)??

Very unreasonable. I have an excellent father that I’ve always been quite close to and three brothers. I’m often harsh regarding the shit male behaviour posted about on here simply because I have great men in my family and I know how good they can be. It gives me zero tolerance for men acting like arseholes and manchildren. There’s no excuse for them to be worthless.

And so many women are so tolerant of men being deadweight in a relationship that sometimes they need to hear people bluntly telling them just how crap their partner/relationship is. For some of them it’s like hearing that other women wouldn’t tolerate it helps them understand that it’s okay for them to stand up for themselves and not tolerate it either.

... and I'm yet to hear of a lazy father in law or brother in law who just sits there and doesn't muck in. Because there's no expectation that they ever would.

There are, undoubtedly, women who target married fathers and seek to have them for themselves. Do men do this to married mothers? Maybe, but I suspect much less often.

I certainly don’t hate men at all ! But as I’ve gotten older and resentments kicked in my views have changed.

I now realise my husband needed a mummy and not a wife. Despite working full time paying half the bills (probably more due to children’s expenses) looking after full house and everything for the children, he wants everything done for him. My friends have very similar marriages and we’re all at a point of resentment. We see our husbands as pathetic little boys who can’t grow up. I think this becomes an issue for a lot of women.

Really??
Thatcher almost caused civil war in the UK

You understand that the outliers don't invalidate the data?

Your internalised misogyny is showing.

I often wonder what women like yourself expect to happen when you dick-pander. Do you think men will like you better? That they'll pat you on the head and call you a good girl for defending the poor helpless lambs? They won't. They won't give you a seat at their table, but they might let you crawl around under it for the crumbs.

Men target women pretty indiscriminately for sex, yet it never cheapens them or devalues them like it does women. It's a sexist old trope that a nasty woman might come after your husband.

Indeed, but I would suggest they're less likely to be looking for anything more than that, i.e. to make someone's wife their own.

‘To address some of the other responses re women who start threads about the shit the men they know personally have put them through - that’s not what I’m talking about. Everyone has beef with other people they know male or female. I’m talking about views on men in generaL’

Hmm can’t you see that those 2 things are linked? It’s not rocket science.

How White Women Use Themselves as Instruments of Terror

"We often like to make white supremacy a testosterone-fueled masculine expression, but it is just as likely to wear heels as a hood. Indeed, untold numbers of lynchings were executed because white women had claimed that a black man raped, assaulted, talked to or glanced at them. The Tulsa race massacre, the destruction of Black Wall Street, was spurred by an incident between a white female elevator operator and a black man. As the Oklahoma Historical Society points out, the most common explanation is that he stepped on her toe. As many as 300 people were killed because of it. The torture and murder of 14-year-old Emmett Till in 1955, a lynching actually, occurred because a white woman said that he "grabbed her and was menacing and sexually crude toward her". This practice, this exercise in racial extremism has been dragged into the modern era through the weaponizing of 9-1-1, often by white women, to invoke the power and force of the police who they are fully aware are hostile to black men. This was again evident when a white woman in New York's Central Park told a black man, a bird-watcher, that she was going to call the police and tell them that he was threatening her life."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/27/opinion/racism-white-women.html

I think it's obvious on here when a women - is critical of a man and their behaviour through a 'lets dismantle the patriarchy' lense, and when a women is critical because she holds resentment and bitterness due to bad experiences with men. It's very blindingly obvious. But a lot of these same women (the latter) are also awfully critical of women on here. It's just pure bitterness. Often understandably so... but they are not level headed when it comes to a MN discussion on relationships, for example.

Exactly this. I love DH, I have great male friends.

But that doesn't stop me knowing that the world’s problems, war, famine, violence, lack of safety, oppression and greed, are massively supported and exported by men. The most dangerous person in the world to almost every woman in history and everywhere in the world is her male partner. He is the most likely person to kill her. As a lesbian you thankfully don’t have to worry about that. But it’s a sobering thought.

I don't hate men but I think it's very important to keep them on a tight leash, never let them get the upper hand etc.

How do you date/fancy/fall in love with them if you have such negative views of them?

Hormones and the urge to have sex/children. After menopause it's much easier to see how bloody useless/misogynist/emotionally stunted and unwholesome so many men are.

And I nearly won the lottery.

Crikey. Is it Emmett Till o'clock already.

So the men who only want a shag aren't cheap, but women who want a relationship are?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Eckford

Is it contempt/hatred or just calling out/anger at the collective injustice. The most dangerous person in a straight woman's life statistically is her male partner. Women as a group suffer hugely from domestic abuse and domestic inequalities which steal their time money and lives. Does talking about that mean you hate all men? No. It's ok to hate the patriarchy and to call out those who perpetuate it.

I’m specifically addressing the term “home-wrecker”.

@Corriganscans You’re a woman living in this world, so I know you’re fully aware of the culture we live in today, where it’s acceptable for men to behaviour poorly. And when I I say poorly, I mean dodge responsibility, anct with impunity and use women. You’re in a lesbian relationship and might enjoy an even keel with your woman partner, so perhaps you’re not as closely exposed to some of these things, but you’re likely a woman in the workplace, and you’ll see it all of the time. Men take advance of women’s care and kindness. But I think women have a hand in their own mistreatment too. I’ve watched my own mother bring up boys to think they’re more entitled than their sisters. We’ve worked 10x harder than them and we’re expected to.

We’re in a better place today than we were say in the 60s. Even the 80s. Men have abused their power and literally used women to make their home and their careers since year dot. And to say that still happens now is absolutely true. Not to the same degree as it was, but it is true. I could sit here and type a reel of scenarios, but we all know them.

I agree that men are lost now. Because they don’t have the pedestal they’re used to. Women are competition for the jobs they want. They haven’t a servant with their dinner, shoes and lunch. They haven’t the glory of having gone and fought in the war, so they translate that energy into sports rivalry or hooliganism.

Look around the planet. On the news headlines. Any unfairness. Tragedy. Atrocity. It’s rarely a woman. But you’ll find women and girls trying to survive through it.

When Hannah Gadsby said that if she was the only woman in a room of men, she felt afraid. I agreed.