AIBU to not let DD have a sleepover with the girl she is going out with?

[weebarra]

DD is 11, in her last year of primary school in Scotland. She is the youngest of 3, her oldest brother is 17. Not that it matters, but he is bisexual.
DD has recently started ‘going out’ with another girl she knows from out of school activities, different primary but they’ll be in the same class at high school. They’ve just had their P7/S1 transition days.
DD would like her girlfriend to come for a sleepover.
I’ve said no as their relationship is not just that of friends. I know they are 11/12, but DD herself says it’s a different feeling. I’ve tried to explain that I wouldn’t let her have a sleepover with a boy either, but she’s very angry with me and that I’m disgusting to think that anything sexual would happen between them at this age. AIBU?

WTF?! Your 11yr old child is in a lesbian relationship and you’re ok with this? I wouldn’t even allow my 10yr old to have a regular boyfriend never mind make life changing decisions like that at such a young, impressionable and easily-influenced age. I don’t even think my 10yr old knows what a lesbian is….

Why is it any more problematic or life-changing if it's a same-sex relationship than an opposite sex one?

OP, YABU.

Mixed sex young relationship sleepovers are a concern due to the possibility of pregnancy, if they get curious and decide to experiment. There is no concern of pregnancy here. The only issue is you feeling grossed out.

Besides, at that age, they're likely going to be watching films and usual stuff more than anything else.

I'd be grossed out at the thought of 11 year olds having sex, regardless of sexuality.
I am quite surprised that so many on this thread think that if pregnancy is not an issue, then there's no issue.

So, two sets of parents, who know both of their children are below the legal age of consent,l. Are encouraging a sexual relationship to develop, by allowing two children who have stated they are "in a relationship", to spend the night together in the same bed?

These kids are 11!

WTF!

Where are social services?

This.
There are laws to safeguard children from sexual relationships. And it's an offence to encourage them to participate in sexual relationships. There are reasons for these laws - they protect children from engaging in age inappropriate sexual relationships.

The OP's evidently sensible and will be safeguarding her daughter, But for all those minimising this, there's a difference between being accepting of same sex relationships and engaging children in ideas / behaviour that suggests it's OK for 11 year olds to be sexually involved.

There's a lot of naivety from some posters on here about the need to ensure that children understand that sexual relationships are for adults and not children - not just because of abuse but because children are too young to navigate adult relationships. It's probably not a coincidence that the child is in a Scottish Primary schools as there's a lot of evidence about deeply unsuitable organisations being allowed to work in primary schools, despite repeated paedophile scandals in these organisations, that raises huge red flags about their understanding of safeguarding and frankly their motivation. See the link below:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5147097-that-lgbtys-lgbt-youth-should-be-removed-from-schools-and-investigated-asap

I'm pretty sure social services have bigger fish to fry then a couple of girls who say they're going out - whatever that means to them.

Even if they have fumble I doubt anything would come of it.

They aren’t saying that though are they.

Yes, they are. They are contrasting heterosexual and lesbian relationships and contending that a lesbian one is life changing. Even suggesting that knowledge of the existence of lesbianism is in some way illicit and not suitable for children.

Agree.

You do realise it's a CRIMINAL offence for the parents to orchestrate this.

Someone needs to step in and take control. Clearly, neither the OP not the other child's parents are capable of looking after the welfare of their children.

Thinking back to when I was a few months shy of 12, I had a huge crush on a neighbour boy who was 12/13. He was kind to me but even at that young age, I could tell that my romantic feelings weren’t reciprocated. Desire can certainly be present at 11.

You’d be happy with your 11 year old child, having a ‘fumble’!!???? Really?
An emotional crush is one thing. A physical relationship at this age is just wrong. For hetero or homosexual relationships. They are children.

I don't think I said I was happy with it. The reality though is these things happen. I'll show you mine if you show me yours was a thing 50+ years ago when I was there age.

My point was that two 11 year old girls sharing a room, even if they admitted having a 'fumble' wouldn't or at least shouldn't cross the threshold for Social Services to get involved.

Um, I did say in my OP that I was not going to allow the sleepover! DD and I have had some open conversations about relationships which I think is healthy, especially give the content of her RSHP classes at school.
No one needs to ‘step in’.

That’s strange that they have no idea about same sex couples

Being in a lesbian relationship at 11 is not remotely life-changing. It will not stop her having future relationships with either sex, or no relationships at all, should she wish to.

Why would a lesbian relationship at 11 be any worse than a heterosexual relationship at 11? And why shouldn't your 10 year old know what a lesbian is? Surely it's a positive thing that they know that two consenting adults can be in a loving relationship, regardless of their biological sex?

Your child doesn’t know what a lesbian is? How odd. Knowing gay people exist isn’t going to make them gay themselves - not that there’s any problem with being gay. There’s a tremendous amount of homophobia on this thread.

OP, I can see you’ve made your mind up about this and I think you’ve made a sensible decision. If it were me, I’d have the same answer as if my daughter had asked for a boy she’s ’going out with’ to sleep over - absolutely not. I won’t be setting a precedent for having partners sleeping over until much, much older, however innocent I think the situation is.

A general point - there's a massive issue about sexualising children. Seeing them as mini adults capable of consenting to sexual relationships and in the interests of "inclusion" including same sex relationships.

This attitude is at the root of the grooming gangs scandal. Seeing girls as able to consent and take responsibility for sexual activity with othes.

All children are entitled to be safeguarded. No child should ever be encouraged to see themselves as being in intimate relationships with another child. I get that we can argue about age differences - 11? 13? 15?
But the law on age of consent is a protective measure and posters minimising the risks of 11 year olds being able to consent to sexual activity with other children are making the same error as all those adults in Rotherham etc who saw those abused girls as complicit and active in their abuse.

I understand that's not what some posters intend when they post about this being harmless. But children are entitled to be protected from adult issues and sex. There's nothing wrong in saying - "No - relationships like this are for adults. You're friends and that's great. But it's not a lesbian relatonship and there'll be no sleepovers at 11".

Well done to the OP for prioritising her daughter's safety.

I can only assume you are homophobic if this is your view. My SIL is a lesbian and my children have known since they were tiny that you can have a husband or a wife and that Aunty R lives with Aunty G just like they know that Uncle S lives with Aunty D. They know nothing about the adult's sex life (because that would be weird and inappropriate) but they know the relationships are equally valid.

Even if this poster really is homophobic and doesn’t know any people in same sex relationships, how has their child got to the age of 10 without having a friend or classmate with same sex parents?!
I cannot fathom keeping the concept of homosexuality a secret from a child, lest it encourage their child to be gay.

Fucking mind boggling.

The hard thing is that means DD is either allowed any girl to stay over except her gf (in which case she'll probably hide who her gf is in the future to get around this rule), or she is not allowed to have girls stay over (in which case she's banned from having any sleepovers because she's a lesbian, which isn't fair). I agree they're too young to have sleepovers with a gf or bf, but it's harder to navigate in this situation.

I'd agree with this approach. If you allow it now it will be very hard to stop later.

Hmmm

The thing is, she could just not tell you another time that a girl is her girlfriend and you’d be none the wiser.

You can’t stop her having sleepovers with other girls generally just because she might be gay.

Maybe allow this one in separate rooms? It’s unlikely they’d be getting up to anything at 11, but just for peace of mind.

It’s not the equivalent of having a boy to stay over though. It’s never the equivalent of that just because a child/ teen is or might be gay.