To think there’s a real crisis in men being able to express how they truly feel about life and society?

[TheGentleSwan]

It feels like, in the West, men are struggling to be honest about their emotions, their frustrations, and how they view the world. Whether it’s societal pressure, fear of judgement, or just a lack of spaces to talk openly, it seems like many men keep things bottled up. AIBU to think this is a real issue?

What do you define as racism? And what harm does it cause to those on the receiving end of it? Because its important to seperate prejudice, which is about feelings, and discrimination, which is about action that causes harm. Anyone can feel prejudice against anyone else, but not everyone has the power to turn that feeling into an act of harm. So when people say white people can't experience racism, and men can't experience sexism, they are pointing out that while people may hold negative views about people because they are white or male, they lack the power on a societal level to translate those feelings to harm. Because of this, 'racism against white people' and 'misandry' can never be the equal opposite to racism against people of colour and misogyny.

I think in 2025 it's hard to argue that women don't have at least some systemic power - the "long march through the institutions" has benefited us in many cases. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it's a bit to talk about how we're institutionally oppressed as if it's 1900 and we're not allowed to vote and have bank accounts.

Yeah I have not noticed this. Not with the explosion of social media and Men With Microphones.

I think people confuse “men being allowed to express their views” with “people bending to their will.

I don’t think this is for women to solve.

LOUDER PLEASE!

Not a single person has said women cant vote or have bank accounts.
What we have said is we don't care that much about male loneliness because they can sort it themselves. Really not the same.

I don’t disagree with that, and you are spot on “on a societal level”. But prejudice and discrimination can impact on an individual level.

men as a class won’t be harmed by it. A man as an individual may be.

That's not quite true though is it?

Rape for example, may as well be legal - conviction rates are so low - and that affects both men and women, but vastly disproportionately women.

Vastly more women and children are in poverty vs. men - in part driven by society's continuing inability to require men to take full responsibility for their children. The burden hugely placed on women, with men able to walk away, and with poor CMS enforcement of what is a tiny amount of the costs of raising a child, largely scott free. This then impacts women in retirement, having had no chance to build up an independent pot, contributing to the majority of pensioners in poverty being women (also age of death obviously).

Then there is still unconscious bias in hiring (google has some excellent training on this), resulting in lower wages for women (which yes, is illegal, but very hard to prosecute), and AI/HR hiring practices which hire 'more like the ones we already have' ie. more blokes in bloke dominated positions, and women in women dominated ones.

Then there's the fundamental issue that men and women just aren't the same. Women are smaller, and the only ones who can get pregnant. Even things like cars are made for the average man, and so women are more likely to die in accidents because everything is that little bit too big for them.

Drug research, healthcare - all biased towards men and male bodies, we're fighting to change it, but it's still true as of today.

To suggest we've 'made it' is hopelessly naive, and to say that recognising that is promoting victimhood is ridiculous.

Yes, of course there will be instances where due to an unusual set of circumstances a white man may find himself at the wrong end of a power dynamic. However, these instances will be situation specific, and the wider context of greater power held by his demographic make it easier for him to move away from that situation into one of multiple alternatives where his race and sex will revert to the default of being an advantage. And no, I'm not saying he should have to. I'm just drawing the distinction between having a negative experience due to an anomaly and being part of a group where the experience is part of a pattern and systemic.

Women are being silenced more than men.

I think you'll find there's been a fair few attacks in the western world from non westerners. I stand by my points. I don't believe singular people have more power because they're white. Absolutely not.

In this thread: you can't be racist against white men, there's never discrimination against men in hiring, men's problems aren't women's to solve, men are all rapists and child-abandoners who don't deserve sympathy...

I mean fair play if that's your view but don't then wonder about why men only seek support from their insane hard-right gamer group chats instead of discussing their issues calmly with their girlfriends...

Well exactly, this is the problem isn't it ? Division does not equal cohesion

Deflection. No one has said all.

But when the Met Police was headed by a woman and was still found to have institutional problems of rape, harassment and abuse, you will forgive me if I ignore your deflection and women blaming.

Wow! I could be wrong but this comment doesn't make you sound wholly supportive...

I think the only real true oppressed in the UK today are the uneducated/low intelligent and the poor. They have no status in society, they are often unable to articulate themselves well (hence shouty online posts that get them put in prison instead of educated) because they're a very easy target. Nobody will stick up for them, they're generally 'unlikeable' because they're often "rough", make poor decisions (smoke, drink, take drugs ) and have no or very low level employment. Like this "class" of people or not : but stripped down, they're probably the only truly oppressed and discriminated group in today's society in real world terms. Nice to berate them and make examples of Mrs online shouty face too. Get some bonus points from the minority groups. Education would often be a better option as these online rants often come from a place of ignorance, low intelligence, inability to articulate civilly and general frustration thats very different to actual racism and discrimination.

Exactly. I've read just three completely random comments and the misandry is off the scale.

Really hope I support the men in my life more than most on here...

OP is not talking about individuals. Pretty sure most women would be kind and supportive of their husbands or sons or brothers if they were depressed or lonely.
OP is talking about men as a class. As a class, I don't believe women need to take responsibility for male loneliness. And if that turns men into incels, it's not our fault as some posters have claimed.

Okay but serious question - if your husband was depressed because he couldn't find a job or was stuck in a low-paying one, and he started a conversation with you about being frustrated that HR diversity hiring initiatives might be working against him, what would your response be?

(Would he raise that frustration in the first place or would he know your views on the general topic already?)

I would listen to him.

Of course, he's brown. As am I. I guess as diversity hires, we never have to worry! We will always be hired first.

In the real world, he took a sabbatical for a year for health reasons. Which I was ok with. Got a bit difficult as I had to support the house on my salary. But we got by.

The difference, much like the difference between men and women, is one of scale, and ability to affect change.

It's not misandry to highlight differences in societal treatment of men/women. Women (like me) saying that their experience is cowardice/laziness keeps men in an unhappy relationship isn't misandry. Pointing out that men commit the vast majority of sexual assaults (and necessarily all rapes) isn't misandry (nor is it saying all men are rapists). Pointing out more men walk out on their families and avoid maintenance isn't misandry.

Ignoring all of that is definitely misogyny though.

Which law is it? That a woman pointing out men's poor behaviour is worse than the man's actual behaviour?

Of course all rapes are commited by males: in law, only males can rape.

All pregnancies are commited by women, because, only women can get pregnant. Argument doesn't stand.

All terrorism is committed in the name of religion pretty much - are all religious people terrorists?

More deflection. Hard to argue with someone who counters the huge societal problem of men not paying maintenance and walking out on families with " Yes, all pregnancies are committed by women?". Committed?

OMG same! If I were male, I would run a mile from these mumsnetters. Every morning would be a long moany lecture about male privilege.

My point was not that women or men have it worse/ better.

It is that emotional freedom of expression/ wellbeing is a two way street.
There is no way for men to have the benefits that women get from being geared this way without also providing understanding and support for others and in the context of this discussion, particularly for one another.

Can you explain what exactly you mean when you say you think emotional honesty in men is ridiculed and minimised?
Honesty about what? Ridiculed and minimised by who?

You know that multiple things can be true at the same time, right?

Yes, all those things are things are true. However, there IS also a crisis of genuinely good men struggling to be open about their feelings/mental health with, many, taking their own lives as a result.

This thread is trying to address that.