Ex won’t return our 3 DDs after visit - what can I even do??

[Blueme]

Bit of a mess here so bare with.

Me and ex split 2yrs ago, not exactly amicable but we manage handovers ok-ish. He’s been seeing the girls (DD10, DD7 and DD5) EOW, odd midweek etc. Nothing court ordered, just what we agreed.

He picked them up Friday just gone, meant to drop them back Sunday tea time. Didn’t turn up. No message nothing. I called, no answer. Texted, WhatsApp, all ignored. He finally messaged MONDAY morning saying he’s “keeping them for a bit” cos he thinks they’re better off with him and I need a “break”

WTF?? I’ve said no way, that’s not how this works. He says he’s not giving them back until we “talk properly” about custody.

I’ve tried being reasonable, told him the girls need their routine and school (they’re missing it!!) and he’s playing games. He just keeps repeating the same stuff.

Have spoken to school, they were as shocked as I am. Have also spoken to police who said it’s a civil matter as we’ve got no court order

Feel totally powerless. Girls are too young to really speak up but I know they’ll be confused and upset. They’ve never been away from me this long

Anyone been through this? Do I need to go to court now? Solicitor? I’m in bits here

Any advice welcome please x

I wouldn't, it's more important to get the application lodged with the court. The sooner it's heard, the sooner OP has the law on her side and can take positive steps to get them back.

And when she does, he may well struggle to get overnight access in future, as he's shown himself to be completely unreasonable and kept them out of school.

I don’t agree with what he’s doing but as far as the police are concerned he’s their other parent ( and he is).

Yes! Social services should be very interested and should be more likely than police to so a wellness check given he isn’t taking them to school. Has he contacted the school re their absence to explain or just keeping them off?

It is awful what the OP is going through but from a legal perspective he is just as much a parent as the OP. A parent has every right to control a DCs phone usage. I have nothing useful to add OP other than handhold as you're going through the correct process. It is highly likely your girls will be back with you in the next couple of days.

Legally it isn't

Social services won't do an urgent welfare check. I promise you that won't happen. If they pick up a referral at all they won't be visiting before the end of next week.

But withholding them from school without explanation is a much greyer area. Not to the police no, but this would be a red flag to SS

I would have called police on Sunday night when he didn't drop them off. You are the main care giver and parent, there is no formal agreement, therefore this could be classed as kidnap and unreasonable unstable behaviour. What kind of stable father does not return his children . He would have returned them and then asked to talk about changing the arrangements. Call the police ASAP . Plus do you even know they are safe?

But at least the ball is rolling and the end of the week could be sooner than a court hearing

The police can’t do anything other than a welfare check. Their hands are tied. Both the op and her ex are legal parents with the exact same rights and responsibilities. Mum doesn’t trump dad and dad doesn’t trumpet mum legally untill paperwork says so.

Social services won’t do anything, you forget children get homeschooled? Because that’s the line he can pull. Police can do a welfare check if they feel they need to, often a phone call to start before a visit. If they are satisfied the dad isn’t a risk they won’t go barging down his door.

Phones. Each parent can decide how much if any access their children have to mobile phones.

Lots of really unhelpful posts for the op to wade though.

A red flag that he's a dickhead? Sure. But this is a contact dispute which by itself isn't the remit for social services. Far more likely that cafcass might have to write a report and the family will never get anywhere near social services.

I don't know how most people think social services operate but

1- they aren't a rapid response service
2- they can't act without parental consent- no welfare checks to father's home if he doesn't agree
3- they can't remove children from parents without a court order
4- they don't get involved in every case of contact disputes/parents refusing to return children/private law applications

Social services get involved when the legal threshold of harm is met. Not when parents are acting like dickheads and messing each other about but not actually causing harm to the children.

It wouldn't be classed as kidnap.

Honestly OP as much as every fibre in your body is screaming to go round I think you’re doing the right thing. He is looking like the unreasonable one, keeping their phones, not letting them speak to you, not letting them attend school so hopefully this will all be in your favour.

If you’re really worried they may be in any danger then that is your call. You could go round and park up, or if you’re not worried they are in danger but just want to check on them can you be creative? Get a friend to go round who he doesn’t know and just knock on the pretence of something else just to see if he answers and there is any sign they’re okay?

The police have been contacted and have already said they won’t do a welfare check at all.

I am so sorry this is happening to you OP, how distressing.

Agree with others re court applications, solicitors and calling social services. Even if they or the police won’t do something, you ARE worried about their welfare and they are the resources we go to when we are concerned for safety. You also need an official log so get whatever you can in writing.

It goes without saying that you need to formalise custody arrangement going forward. What is he thinking.

I would go there this evening, and I would probably somehow record the encounter. This could get very nasty

I said the end of NEXT week. A referral to MASH today will be screened and if accepted for assessment as green or amber at the most meaning it will be passed to a social worker to visit within 5 working days. If they did agree to do an assessment they would need the father's consent to visit the children at his home, is he going to give that? And even if he does, they can't take the children with them and return them to OP.

Yes because they don’t seem the dad a risk.

They will have access to all of dads records if he has any.

This is a custody dispute not a welfare issue deep down.

So what should the OP do then. Nothing. Just wait for him to give them back? Her girls are likely extremely upset at not being able to speak to their mother.

As PP have said, contact a solicitor to arrange an emergency court order. Make sure you document everything and keep copies of all communication. Don’t have any phone conversations with him.

You should also report to social services - not because they will necessarily do anything immediately but because it is evidence that you are concerned about their welfare and are taking all the appropriate steps to ensure their safety.

I would also put something in writing to school to say that you are aware they have not been in attendance and this has happened without your consent and you are taking steps to try to get them back into education as quickly as possible.

I would also try social services OP, at the very least they will be interested that he hasn't taken them to school. I would also try calling him mother rather than messaging.

Apply to court for an urgent hearing. Which she is doing. But she's probably wasted many hours faffing about with police and reading endless posts on this thread telling her to phone police and demand immediate action.

No op petitions the court. Thats all she can do to get herself legally issued at the one with sole custody which means dad can only have the children set within custody agreement. Then if he keeps them the police can remove as it is then kidnap.

Currently it’s one parent saying they are now the main custodian and with holding access.

@Blueme write a diary. Each day, what happened, and what action you took. Because when your DC are 18, whatever way all of this ends up, at least you’ll be able to show them what happened in detail, and they’ll be able to form their own opinions.

It might not be but not classed as kidnap , but he's with holding without consent, it could be classed as parental abduction. The police can do a welfare check. The man doesn't sound stable

That there is no formal agreement is exactly why it's not kidnap.

They are, in the eyes of the police, two parents with equal responsibilities to the children and no court order to dictate where the children live.

His method is unreasonable, but not illegal.