Ex won’t return our 3 DDs after visit - what can I even do??

[Blueme]

Bit of a mess here so bare with.

Me and ex split 2yrs ago, not exactly amicable but we manage handovers ok-ish. He’s been seeing the girls (DD10, DD7 and DD5) EOW, odd midweek etc. Nothing court ordered, just what we agreed.

He picked them up Friday just gone, meant to drop them back Sunday tea time. Didn’t turn up. No message nothing. I called, no answer. Texted, WhatsApp, all ignored. He finally messaged MONDAY morning saying he’s “keeping them for a bit” cos he thinks they’re better off with him and I need a “break”

WTF?? I’ve said no way, that’s not how this works. He says he’s not giving them back until we “talk properly” about custody.

I’ve tried being reasonable, told him the girls need their routine and school (they’re missing it!!) and he’s playing games. He just keeps repeating the same stuff.

Have spoken to school, they were as shocked as I am. Have also spoken to police who said it’s a civil matter as we’ve got no court order

Feel totally powerless. Girls are too young to really speak up but I know they’ll be confused and upset. They’ve never been away from me this long

Anyone been through this? Do I need to go to court now? Solicitor? I’m in bits here

Any advice welcome please x

Yes they do. They should only refer without informing parents if there is an immediate risk of significant harm that would be increased by informing the parents.

That is the safeguarding concern. Children absent from school with no communication/ explanation , and mother unable to contact her children for days and concerned for their safety and wellbeing.

You would not be unreasonable at all to go over there, at the very least it will show your girls you haven't just left them there (if that's the narrative he's trying to put to them)

Get the form from the gov.uk website and fill it in. Get it filed by 4pm today and you may have an urgent hearing tomorrow. Stop wasting time waiting for solicitors is my advice.

Maybe the fact that the mother has been refused to even speak to or see the children at all?

Just to add another perspective re the police welfare check, unless you are genuinely concerned and have reason to believe he's harmed them (obvious emotional harm aside), having the police show up is likely to be very unsettling and scary for the children, in what is already a potentially upsetting situation for them. They'd have to see and speak to the girls. While it might put your mind at ease, unless you really do believe he's physically harming them I don't think a welfare check is necessarily helpful. Your main concern here is emotional harm and actually having the police rock up is likely to increase that.

Absolutely get an urgent application into court today, I would expect this to be treated as urgent by the court and can't imagine any judge not ordering their return in these circumstances.

I'm sorry, it's just not. They are with their father. Being kept off school doesn't mean they are experiencing harm. Being kept off school temporarily is poor parenting but it's not 'harm' as per the legal threshold as defined in the children act. The mother being unable to contact the children is also not a safeguarding concern. It would only be a safeguarding concern if the father had a history of harming the children, which presumably he does not.

Absolutely. The school need to at the very least call him as a first step. The fact that all three clearly aren't ill is an unauthorised absence. He has all the parental rights but none of the responsibilities it seems.

If you do this @Blueme make sure you have as much information as possible, such as proof that you receive child benefit, proof that you are the main contact for school etc. I don't know if you can use texts and messages as proof but if you have any sort of written communication from him to prove what the casual child contact arrangements are then that would also be useful.

That doesn't mean the father is harming the children. The definition of harm used by public services has a defined threshold. The father's behaviour is appalling, selfish and high handed, but there is no reason to believe he is harming the children as per the definition of harm set out in the children act.

Absebt from school with no explanation and communication is a safeguarding concern. A mother who hasn’t been able to contact her kids for days and is concerned about their safety and wellbeing , is a welfare concern.

The fact that you are unable to perceive this is bizarre , but quite frankly not a perspective worthy of respect.

Schools and police take action all the time in these sorts of circumstances- including through making a phone call and through conducting welfare visits. We’ve even had a parent who’s been through this on this very thread sharing their experience of this, where the police doing a welfare check was enough to get the kid home.

I'd be livid and terrified, OP. Do as others have suggested with the lawyer and the passport office. Do you think it's something like he thinks he can get benefits for the children so can afford to stay off work?

His mother not responding shows you exactly her point of view. Be wary of her in future.

I really hope everything gets sorted out and your children are home with you soon.

Of course it doesn’t mean the father is harming the children - no one is claiming that. They are saying there is a concern that should prompt a welfare check.

Agree with @FortyElephants, and also work in this field. Rightly or wrongly, without a court order in place or the children being on a plan, it’s seen as a civil issue. He’s not disappeared with the children, he’s been clear about where they are and that they’re ok. He has parental responsibility and if he wants to keep them off for a couple of days, it’s not a criminal issue and wouldn’t flag as an immediate safeguarding concern.

I also agree that OP can apply directly to court for a PSO. At least when it comes to the courts I work with, in this situation the children would inevitably be returned to the main carer following a proper CAO hearing at a later date. Plenty of people self represent without a solicitor.

There are two great Facebook groups

Child and family law Uk
And
Fathers justice Uk (actually gives help to both)

I would post on both of these and ask for advice on next steps and which forms you need to file at court - you want to do this before 5pm today don't wait for a lawyer - one of the group memebers should reply to you immediately.

Sorry - auto correct. Followed BY a CAO hearing at a later date, it should say.

If he doesn't work he will be wanting to get maintenance from you

He hasn’t been clear about where they are at all. He hasn’t even been in touch with the school.

I'd be very concerned. I know a Mum who's ex didn't return their DS. It took a year before it went to court who then agreed DS had been with their Dad for so long that it was in his best interests to stay with Dad.

Have you spoken to the kids? Is there any background of you struggling mentally that ex might hold over you?

He’s told the OP they are with him, and OP has passed that on to the school.

I’m not disagreeing that it’s all kinds of wrong, I’m just agreeing that the way @FortyElephantshas described is the way this sort of thing is handled.

You don’t know they’re safe, he is acting out of character and the school haven’t had sight of the children. I would make a complaint to your police force.

You can ask the DSL from school to contact Dad and if their unhappy with his response ask the police for a welfare check. They maybe unwilling to get involved but they should be calling to find out why the children aren’t in school.

This happened to me. My ex took my son, I was going out of my mind, I went directly to the court for a prohibited steps order and sat and waited until someone could squeeze me in. They called him in the following day and he didn't turn up and then they issued a order which I had to take to his house, he still didn't hand over our son and the police got called on me and i was asked to go away from the house and go back to court the following day which I did and the judge gave me a new order to take to the police station and they removed my son from his dad.
Still the worst 3 days of my life, he was only 18 months and had never spent a night away from me. He was crying at the window for me.
But please just go straight to the court and put the emergency order in... don't wait for a solicitor

I work with schools.

Have you read the attendance policy of your child’s school? What does it say and are the school following it?

This is a ‘googled’ policy, most in my opinion say much the same.
The school wont be able to demand the children come to school but they should be able to tell you about the steps that they have taken, following their own policy, to know that your girls are safe.

This may help in putting your mind at rest (slightly - I know my ex - a police officer! - did this to me too).
Has your exH been in touch with school, are school maintaining contact daily/by their policy, if not, have they carried out a welfare check?

Googled ‘any school’ policy to show what it should say.
https://www.waterbeachschool.org.uk/attachments/download.asp?file=13781&type=pdf

Details taken from it which you are looking for in ‘your’ school policy, to hold the school to account by.

Just wanting to help you! Please ask!

@Blueme it is maybe a bit late for any documents to come of the court by 5pm but pretty sure if you saw a solicitor this afternoon, those docs could be submitted tomorrow first thing and out before lunch for service tomorrow on your ex. is he on birth certs? perhaps also go for parental responsibility and get visitation sorted out. solicitor will take whole statement so get all dates in order and also take birth certs and marriage if you have one. get timeline done. re phone calls and messages. if you can print messages it might be easier. all those docs go to court.

OP has not spoken to her kids since Friday. She is not in a position to confirm to the school where they are and if they are safe, because she does not possess this information. The school should be aware of this.