Bank of Mum and Dad and disrespect - request they finance their own.

[Mumofadultkid]

Please bear with me there is a lot to this, and please be gentle with your comments - this has put me into a tailspin and I am crying every day.

We have helped our DD and her partner into a house, by releasing equity from our home and getting a revolving mortgage on their behalf. It was a significant amount and has put us years back in clearing our own mortgage. (We are fast approaching retirement!) They agreed to pay a certain amount each month to clear it, but they have defaulted on this 3 times already. The house is a movable house (not a caravan but movable) and is on our land. They use our services but only pay a small amount towards utilities such as electricity.

In the past, we have bought her two cars, one we agreed to pay for and the other we got the loan in our name for her to pay us back as she couldn't secure a loan at the time and I said its cheaper this way than paying all that interest. The second car loan, she paid a couple of payments, barely anything - then she started again with the attacks and said "it's all about the money with you", as a result of that - we said it's not about the money - keep the car! (On reflection, I now know this was the wrong thing to do)

She is always combative and looks for anything to have a go at us with, it really is anything - a post I may have put up, she interprets it as an attack on her, if I say something (even nothing to do with her) she interprets as an attack on her. If we don't respond in a way that she wants - "we were not excited enough", or we don't support her, or we are abusive, toxic narcissists. I noticed this as a young teen, where she claimed to her friends that a teacher had looked her up and down, funnily judging her outfit - she didn't! There was no looking up and down. The teacher said hi, Where are the others and that was it! Its been going on for years.

She can't maintain friendships, and has actually been quite nasty to some of them - pointing out "their toxic traits" - she has had three jobs never longer than a year, all of which have ended because she feels she is better than everyone, everyone is stupid and doesn't know what they are doing, and she is quite rightly (in her mind) pointing out everything that is wrong with the organisation to her managers!

She recently left her job to start her own business which is not going very well!

Her partner had a great job, but due to her "interference", he has had to move teams. She went in with him to "talk to his managers" because of "bullying behaviour from the team". It wasn't. The team he worked with was warning him because in a short space of time, he had moved in with her, and is now fully supporting her financially. He has sold his car to fund her business, he has reduced his hours to be with her (resulting in a significant drop in salary) and no longer sees his friends - she actually said to his managers face, "It's bad management".!!!!

She came away quite smug, that "she told them what's what".

Her partner was so lovely, and still is - when he came on the scene, he really calmed her down, and we thought finally someone to help her see things a little bit more clearly and a different perspective. We had such a lovely time with him, but that soon changed! He even approached me to ask how to deal with her, and he said she's feisty!

We met his family, and his family sent a message to him telling him what lovely people my husband and I are as we were driving home - and I remember then grabbing the steering wheel tightly in panic (I was driving home) and thinking she is not going to like that! (DD)

Now, he has been turned against us and is sending us horrible messages as a result of a non-event again. Its clear that she is nudging him to say these things and I suspect she is using his account to get to us ( I had to mute/block her because of the vitriol she kept sending). He called my husband names and is accusing us of lying! (This was the discussion over payment of the mortgage - he said we are lying because they can pay what they want when they want, we advised them this is true, but that is not the agreement we had; they need to make regular payments as agreed.)

It feels like she is nice to get what she wants, but as soon as she gets it she looks for and creates drama to cut us out of her life. I admit that in the past, in panic, I have bowed down.

But this time, she attacked me in my workplace, sending emails to my boss and trying to make me look incompetent. Luckily for me, my boss just ignored them, but said that she (DD) was definitely trying to ruin my reputation.

We live in a very small town, she tells lies constantly, and I am lost. I don't know what to do. It feels like she twists everything to drive a narrative that she is the victim and we are the nasties. Its so heartbreaking.

We had a message that she no longer wishes to have a relationship with us, due to our toxic behaviour and emotional abuse - she ended it with " I wish you both well". Yet she is still living on our land, with a debt in our name and using our facilities.

We don't want to cut her off, we don't want to appear to be petty or reactive.

I want to tell them to get their own loan, to clear our loan and then get it moved off. But I don't think they can now.

I have blocked her socials and her emails to stop the onslaught - is that petty? Am I just as bad as her for behaving like this?

And I'm afraid this feeds into her narrative about us. I want a relationship with her, but this pattern is so draining and exhausting. We are constantly walking on eggshells around her - if we explain this to her, she then uses that against us and turns the narrative to say she is the one walking on eggshells. It feels like she is AI, she's learning all these things from us to then accuse us of what she is doing - if that makes sense?

I don't know what to do.

Am I right to block all contact and request they get their own finance and move their house - or will this just inflame the situation and prevent any way back.

Cut off contact and consider getting them moved on.
You know you need to.
When there is distance, perhaps you can start building a relationship.
She also needs to see that she needs medical help, but that won’t be easy, not counselling, probably medication.

Wow, that’s a great letter, that is very kind of you to take the time to draft that🥰 I feel so sorry for this lady, she has done her best to help her daughter and she is just a brat. I

You’re DD sounds mentally very unwell and I think you’re getting her to be reasonable / logical are nigh on impossible. I imagine you realise that attempts to rectify this will result in the loss of your daughter but I can’t see what benefit there is to the relationship anyway . I think a big factor is whether the property is in her name and whether the mort / loan is contractually written up . If not you have been incredibly naive . I think if I had so little options I’d legally divide the land in two and sell the part you and your husband reside in and move away leaving her to it . I fear for her partner aswell , she sounds hugely toxic .

You'll probably have to write off this debt - I doubt she will pay it back

Get the services to the mobile home sorted as separate, gas, electric, council tax and water - the land registered on land registry as its own plot

put your house up for sale and move - down size to get rid of your mortgage

then tell your daughter that as she says its all about the money - you'll cut your losses and leave the rest to the dogs home - I bet then all be all about the fucking money

You can't have a healthy or normal (whatever normal is) relationship with your dd, its really very sad but that is the crux of it.

Stop feeding her drama otherwise it'll send you and your husband to an early grave.

Haven’t RTFT but if nobody else has mentioned it yet then I’d also change the locks to your home (assuming she has a key) and install a Ring doorbell, possibly even consider CCTV. I really feel for you but can’t see there’s a way back from this. How well do you know the partners parents? Could you let them know the real situation?

You'll have to cut her off eventually, so you may as well start now.

1. Warn your manager she may escalate.
2. Get notice to quit written up by a lawyer, for simplicity unless you plan to sue you'll need to let her keep the mobile home if she removes it from the land by X date. Anything left on your premises after that date will be sold to pay her debt. (Selling is cleaner even if you make a loss, or she will be agitating to take it in future.)
3. Warn the boyfriend's parents, explain the issue is her but it can't continue. At least pre-warned they can decide their own response.
4. Notice to move, then evict them.

And I'm sorry for you and your DH, it sounds like she has a mental health disorder affecting her perceptions, but things have gone too far now for you to step in.

The letter @CakeBlanchettwould be a good starting point and I assume from reading it that Cake has some legal knowledge in this area.
Or speak to a local solicitor for advice.
you will really need to stand firm.
Your daughter sounds vile , she is going to end up a lonely individual by the sounds of it.

@MikeRafoneGetting individual services laid on can be tens of thousands of pounds which may not be feasible for the OP. When I wanted to do the same my main electric hub was prob 100mtrs away and the electric board wanted £20,000 at that time , 3/4 yrs ago .
it’s not cheap but is a lesson to anyone connecting for the first time to think about if you’ll ever need a second direct supply.

The account of your daughter's behaviour is awful. She sounds very much like she has a personality disorder, I'd plump for EUPD with narcissistic traits. There's not a lot you can do about that, she needs to seek her own help which she may well not want to.

I don't mean to sound harsh when I say this - you and your DH have enabled her behaviour over the years and have allowed this current situation to occur. I think both of you need help to address why you have and continue to parent her in the ways that you're choosing. I would 100 percent recommend physchoanalytic psychotherapy to unpick what's going on for you and to help you moving forward.

Nobody here can tell you what to do about your finances or how to change your relationship with your daughter. You need to take some time to think those things through, and a good psychoanalysis will help you make sense of what you want.

Yet new houses are built between houses on spare land, seek advise from a property developer - as they aren't paying that amount

This is the only thing you can do if you want it all to stop

Also be aware if its a separate dwelling and council tax isn't being paid for it - then council tax will request the money for the separate plot from when it was built/installed - so get that sorted before they come after you.

I would say have a big sit down chat with her; and tell her how utterly unreasonable all this is. The real world owes her nothing; and she is being very self destructive. I would attempt counseling with her; you and her and then involve the partner.

if there is no improvement in her behaviour or perspective; you’d be within your rights to reduce contact. I find this such a sad situation. She is obviously - spoilt - but also very self destructive and I expect she sees the world from a very negative place. I also wondered if you have other children? And if so what their perspective is?? I do think you’ve completely enabled her financially and as a result she is not able to stand on her own two feet.

Fully agree, as much as your daughter has been acting horrendously, who has been enabling her behaviour all these years? And why?
You and your husband knew fully well her patterns - how she is with everyone around her, you knew that her accusations towards you were overdramatic and completely baseless, so why bend over backwards with cars, mortgages etc when you can't even afford it?

Her partner doesn't sound all that nice either actually, if he's lapping all her bullshit and he is obviously aware they'd both agreed to be paying you back but is perfectly comfortable not giving a penny - and sending you abusive texts on top! He may be her victim, but more likely imo he is the same as her and they feed off each other in their made up world of victimhood.

This is absolutely heartbreaking for you. I’ve been there and if it is any help things appeared to turn around for us when DD was in her early 40’s. All I can say is stick with it, give what you can to ensure she had a safe place to live and you are at least in touch. I understand the need to ‘keep her sweet’. It’s not healthy but what else can you do for what is essentially still your ‘child’. Blessings to you and I hope she eventually learns to appreciate all you have done for her.

Who owns the mobile home? Is it in your name or hers?

Essentially, it's her way or the highway. You either acquiesce to her demands (and they will keep coming, forevermore) or she will cut you out of her life. You have decided thus far to give her what she demands every time - cars, money, a mobile home, bills paid.

I think you need to make a decision and resolve to live with the consequences.

1. You accept that having a relationship with her means handing over whatever she demands and that she will not repay "loans". They aren't loans; they are just gifts. Accept that you must bankroll her forever.

1. You stop giving her money and expensive items, and taking on her debts in your name. Once she realises that you aren't a piggy bank to be shaken down anymore, she will likely throw the mother of all hissy fits and cut you out of her life. Hopefully she will grow up at some point and come back to you.

It may be that as part of option 2 you could seek legal advice to explore options around clawing back some of the loan and/or the mobile home. That will depend on the nature of the agreement and what evidence you have.

Make a decision and make peace with the consequences of that decision. Otherwise you are in a permanent state of expecting her to change and hoping "this time will be different".

What’s a moveable house if not a caravan?

Mobile home.

Keep telling yourself you can love her but you cannot help her.

Then get a professional to deal with detangling this on your behalf. It is just too hard. That's not your fault.

In a practical way I’d look at how best to disentangle finances. I’d go as far as to give her some of her inheritance early if you can, and then reduce contact to a minimum or even zero. Unfortunately you have tied yourselves to them and that is proving to be costly.

I’d also seek help from a therapist with how to deal with your daughter from now on.

i’m sorry OP that you’re in such a bad situation.

I would reply…

I wish you both well??? Yeah bet you do sweetheart, without your Father and I you have nothing. You’ve never bought a car, you can’t afford your mortgage and you live on MY land, of course you wish me well, without me your homeless. Dad and I are speaking to a solicitor on Thursday about the best way to move forward. We want to cancel the mortgage, get your wendy house off the land and then let’s see how you get on on your own.

Wish you well, Mum.

Sadly with narcissists there is no way to solve it. You either resign yourself to a life of misery & chaos whilst pandering to her, or you set boundaries of steel and grey rock her.
There is no middle ground.
Get her off your land and away, otherwise nothing changes and you live life as the victim of a bully.

Agree with the others here, she won't change

Kick them out, sell the mobile home.

Take back anything you can from them and sue for the remainder