Bank of Mum and Dad and disrespect - request they finance their own.

[Mumofadultkid]

Please bear with me there is a lot to this, and please be gentle with your comments - this has put me into a tailspin and I am crying every day.

We have helped our DD and her partner into a house, by releasing equity from our home and getting a revolving mortgage on their behalf. It was a significant amount and has put us years back in clearing our own mortgage. (We are fast approaching retirement!) They agreed to pay a certain amount each month to clear it, but they have defaulted on this 3 times already. The house is a movable house (not a caravan but movable) and is on our land. They use our services but only pay a small amount towards utilities such as electricity.

In the past, we have bought her two cars, one we agreed to pay for and the other we got the loan in our name for her to pay us back as she couldn't secure a loan at the time and I said its cheaper this way than paying all that interest. The second car loan, she paid a couple of payments, barely anything - then she started again with the attacks and said "it's all about the money with you", as a result of that - we said it's not about the money - keep the car! (On reflection, I now know this was the wrong thing to do)

She is always combative and looks for anything to have a go at us with, it really is anything - a post I may have put up, she interprets it as an attack on her, if I say something (even nothing to do with her) she interprets as an attack on her. If we don't respond in a way that she wants - "we were not excited enough", or we don't support her, or we are abusive, toxic narcissists. I noticed this as a young teen, where she claimed to her friends that a teacher had looked her up and down, funnily judging her outfit - she didn't! There was no looking up and down. The teacher said hi, Where are the others and that was it! Its been going on for years.

She can't maintain friendships, and has actually been quite nasty to some of them - pointing out "their toxic traits" - she has had three jobs never longer than a year, all of which have ended because she feels she is better than everyone, everyone is stupid and doesn't know what they are doing, and she is quite rightly (in her mind) pointing out everything that is wrong with the organisation to her managers!

She recently left her job to start her own business which is not going very well!

Her partner had a great job, but due to her "interference", he has had to move teams. She went in with him to "talk to his managers" because of "bullying behaviour from the team". It wasn't. The team he worked with was warning him because in a short space of time, he had moved in with her, and is now fully supporting her financially. He has sold his car to fund her business, he has reduced his hours to be with her (resulting in a significant drop in salary) and no longer sees his friends - she actually said to his managers face, "It's bad management".!!!!

She came away quite smug, that "she told them what's what".

Her partner was so lovely, and still is - when he came on the scene, he really calmed her down, and we thought finally someone to help her see things a little bit more clearly and a different perspective. We had such a lovely time with him, but that soon changed! He even approached me to ask how to deal with her, and he said she's feisty!

We met his family, and his family sent a message to him telling him what lovely people my husband and I are as we were driving home - and I remember then grabbing the steering wheel tightly in panic (I was driving home) and thinking she is not going to like that! (DD)

Now, he has been turned against us and is sending us horrible messages as a result of a non-event again. Its clear that she is nudging him to say these things and I suspect she is using his account to get to us ( I had to mute/block her because of the vitriol she kept sending). He called my husband names and is accusing us of lying! (This was the discussion over payment of the mortgage - he said we are lying because they can pay what they want when they want, we advised them this is true, but that is not the agreement we had; they need to make regular payments as agreed.)

It feels like she is nice to get what she wants, but as soon as she gets it she looks for and creates drama to cut us out of her life. I admit that in the past, in panic, I have bowed down.

But this time, she attacked me in my workplace, sending emails to my boss and trying to make me look incompetent. Luckily for me, my boss just ignored them, but said that she (DD) was definitely trying to ruin my reputation.

We live in a very small town, she tells lies constantly, and I am lost. I don't know what to do. It feels like she twists everything to drive a narrative that she is the victim and we are the nasties. Its so heartbreaking.

We had a message that she no longer wishes to have a relationship with us, due to our toxic behaviour and emotional abuse - she ended it with " I wish you both well". Yet she is still living on our land, with a debt in our name and using our facilities.

We don't want to cut her off, we don't want to appear to be petty or reactive.

I want to tell them to get their own loan, to clear our loan and then get it moved off. But I don't think they can now.

I have blocked her socials and her emails to stop the onslaught - is that petty? Am I just as bad as her for behaving like this?

And I'm afraid this feeds into her narrative about us. I want a relationship with her, but this pattern is so draining and exhausting. We are constantly walking on eggshells around her - if we explain this to her, she then uses that against us and turns the narrative to say she is the one walking on eggshells. It feels like she is AI, she's learning all these things from us to then accuse us of what she is doing - if that makes sense?

I don't know what to do.

Am I right to block all contact and request they get their own finance and move their house - or will this just inflame the situation and prevent any way back.

Your daughter sounds very much like a narcissist. I recognise this requires a formal diagnosis in her case, but the behaviours and attitudes are so similar to my own experience with a diagnosed relative.

I really feel for you, OP, because it is hard to cut anyone off, let alone a child - I can’t imagine how painful this must feel.

She is absolutely taking advantage of you and being manipulative to get her own way. From my own experience with this type of person, when called out they initially tend to become very angry and double down on their lies and manipulation, making you feel as if you’re the bad guy, and then once they realise they need your attention, they return either as if nothing happened or work their way back into your good graces with lots of affection (nearly always to return to the same patterns of behaviour).

I think you’ve done the right thing by standing your ground with the finances and drawing a hard line in the sand as she clearly has no empathy for any of the other effects this has had on you. I would accept in your head that the money is written off though as others have said and try and move on from that point. It’s your decision whether to try and have a relationship if she eventually comes back (and I imagine you will try because it’s your daughter!) but I would proceed with caution and quickly shut her down if she crosses a boundary so she at least gets the picture.

Wishing you all the best, OP, as this sounds very tough 💐

Just see a solicitor regarding getting money back.

That’s the only practical thing you can do. Her behaviour is extreme. I have volunteered in a setting with women where some had very extreme behaviour mainly linked to childhood trauma. I’m not accusing you by the way because things happen to children that their parents never know about. These women were diagnosed with MH issues, women with schizoaffective disorders and personality disorders had patterns of behaviour like your DD. I have to add I am not a medical professional and was just a volunteer so I am not attempting to diagnose her. What I’m writing is if she is unwell and untreated then you will never be able to reason with her, all the sit her down and make her see sense posts, they will just not work.

I’d go as far as to give her some of her inheritance early if you can

I'd go further, and change my will to leave my money to a charity - I'd leave her £10 to buy a drink so it was clear I had not forgotten her.

Why would I give a selfish brat anything - she's made her bed, she can lie in it

This will be your life if you do not take control.

She is an abuser.
Get legal advice.
Change your will so that she doesn't inherit a thing.
You need to get her off your land and serve her notice.
This behaviour from her will only get a lot worse as you age.
You need to take control now while you are able.
Talk to a solicitor and the police to help get you off her land.
You need to stop giving any money and sell what you have bought to reclaim what you can.

You and your husband are victims of abuse.
It will continue if you allow it.
Contact Women's aid for a support.

Don't worry about neighbours etc., people are well able to see the wood for the trees.

She sounds as if she has a huge personality disorder.
You will never win nor change her, so protec yourselves while you can.

I'm sure you know that every decision you've made has been a bad decision. You should never have agreed that she should live on your land. You shouldn't have remortgaged. You shouldn't have told her she didn't have to pay for the car. All you can do now is go to a solicitor and say you want to end all of this and ask for the best way possible. It's going to cost you more money but it should set you free. Are you farmers? If you are not and your home is purely your home then I would look at moving. I would also urgently seek therapy for you and your husband.

That’s a non starter . Why give her some of her inheritance early! She’s already had full finance above and beyond. I’d be making it clear she’s had more than enough and that there’s nothing left as she’s drained everything due to the remortgage. Perhaps the op could sell up and move somewhere else. If possible downsize and enjoy any money that might come from this.

Your daughter is toxic. Shes abusing you, her partner and likely anyone that has the misfortune to cross her path.

She’s exploiting you. She’s using you.

I highly doubt you’ll do this but you need to take everything back that’s yours and kick her off your land. She deserves nothing.

She needs to grow up and sort her own shitty life out. You trying to fix everything is making it worse and teaching her nothing.

Agreed. I’m always baffled on mumsnet by the amount of people that seem to think there’s a right for adult children to inherit their parents estate. The parents can do what they want with their money. I’d not give her a penny!

@op What a tangled situation. When family are as difficult as this, the only way to manage them is at a physical and emotional distance.

(I’ve had to do this with my father).

You need - with some urgency - to live further apart. Others have given you better advice than I have about how to achieve this. You can’t distance yourself from her if you’re bumping into her, and her dwelling is literally within your sight. This should be the priority.

Otherwise, it sounds as though you have been a very caring and involved mum, so cutting her off won’t come easily to you. Going completely ‘no contact’ will be difficult for you, so instead, try to focus on not reacting or responding so quickly to her, and deescalating her drama and keeping your peace and calm, when your paths do cross.

You don’t need to defend yourself if she insults you; you don’t need to crisis manage and talk her down if she threatens something; you don’t need to provide what she asks for. You need to take several steps back and let a lot of it fly over your head. A counsellor will help.

I’m sorry this has happened - lots of people have to deal with difficult adult children. Follow the ‘parenting adult children’ board to read about similar problems and you will feel less alone with this. Stay in touch and let us know how you get on. X

Is she likely to trash the mobile home if warned she'll be evicted?

I think I agree with a pp that if the car and mobile home are in your name I would try and blindside her. Put her stuff in a storage unit and sell them when she's on holiday

OP, kindly, you need to remove as much emotion from this and go and see a solicitor to establish your rights and what you can and cannot do. Then decide a plan and implement it, then go NC. For your own peace of mind you really must do this.
I wish you well.

I’m so sorry OP but I can’t see a way out of this without your DD finding some way to complain about your behaviour and go NC with you. I know a lot of people have mentioned eviction but your DD is likely to refuse and this could become very messy and involve enforcement. Have you thought about selling and downsizing? Write a letter to your DD saying that financially you cannot afford to live there without DDs payments and therefore you have to sell up. Then all of you are moving, not just them. I would definitely speak to a solicitor to discuss your options. Good luck.

You need to get them off your land and put some distance between you. No matter how badly this hurts you financially. You could sell all the property/land and go and start fresh in another property that isn’t in your small town, even.

and you also need to accept that one day, you may need to cut her out of your life. She is an abuser and everyone she meets, she makes their life worse. You can choose to live your life, or you can choose to be abused by her. And it is a choice.

I am laughing at the post saying to give her some inheritance early!
WTAF
She's had it tenfold already!

There's nothing like suggesting you give a windfall to someone who is abusing you!!!!

My first step would be to understand possibly via legal advice what (if any) rights I had to recover the debt and remove them from my land. Once I knew what I COULD do under law, then I'd have a hard think about what I wanted to do. Because informal action is going to result in the worst of both worlds. Your relationship will be over and they will not repay you. So if you're going to go down the path of getting what is due to you, you need to be prepared to go all in through legal channels. If you're not prepared to do that, then you might as well write the debt off and avoid the additional misery it will cause to keep unsuccessfully chasing it. As for your on going relationship, much will depend on your choices above. However I think I'd be aiming for distance with the door open should she decide to treat you with the respect you deserve.

I couldn’t even read all that. Boundaries, you need boundaries. You don’t need to be hyper dramatic and block all communication. You need to be firm that it’s time she flew the nest. That you won’t be providing any more financial support and they have 6 months to find alternative accommodation (moving the house to other land or renting a small flat together until they can move it).

That said, I do also think it’s very worth doing some self-examination here. If this is a true account of your daughter’s behaviour, she wasn’t born this way. It’s learned behaviour within your family and you created this situation for yourselves by pandering to her for many years with no consequences.

Though this sounds very much like the story my mum tells about me (except I definitely don’t live in a tiny house or anywhere near her, thank god), right down to the taking money for a house (not true in my case, but she loves to tell everyone that and quote the huge amounts I’ve apparently stolen from her). The actual story is very different and has to do with safeguarding my children.

Now in your case, it doesn’t sound like she is trying to protect her children from a convicted child abuser, but it does sound like everyone needs to examine how the family dynamics have created this situation. If you want to eventually heal the relationship, you may need to go first in working on yourself, taking accountability and setting healthy boundaries in hopes that she will be able to do the same once you all have some space from each other.

You should go and get some legal advice as soon as possible.
She is never going to change and you now have a debt you have to pay off.

I would evict her and sell the tiny home (or whatever it is) but that depends on the exact legal situation.

I've a sister like this. It never changes, honestly. She always knows better than everyone, even sent a complaint to the Law Society about a solicitor employed by us who set her straight on a few issues. No one in the family has spoken to her in years. See a solicitor now and cut your losses as quickly as possible. Good luck.

You need to seek urgent legal and financial advice. I understand you love your daughter, but you have both been enabling her behaviour over the years. You need to cut the purse strings. You are not responsible for housing or financially supporting your adult daughter. You need to be in the mindset of 'enough is enough' and that means taking steps to evict her from your land, forcing her to find somewhere else and pay her way in life. At the moment she knows if she doesn't pay, you have too. The mortgage and loan are all in your names, so she's not financially responsible for them, you are! I don't know what you can do about these to be honest, which is why you need urgent legal and financial advice. At the moment it's best you don't have contact with her, block her on all forms of contact. She's nasty, unpleasant person, who is using emotional blackmail and bullying tactics to constantly have her own way. She sounds highly strung, controlling, manipulative and quite frankly unhinged. I'd be thinking long-term too - do you want her in control of you both as you age? Do you want to leave her money/assets when you pass away? I'd rather leave my estate to the local cats home, than someone like your daughter. You need to start making a water tight Will, arranging for someone else to have POE should you both become unable to look after your health/finances and having a solicitor be executor of your Will. You need to safeguard your assets from your greedy daughter.

Your DD sounds like my MIL - she has a massive victim mentality, thinks everyone is conspiring against her and has fallen out with all her family as a result of these perceived slights. I don't have any advice but it's really hard to deal with people like that.

I have adult kids, and frankly I’d push the nuclear button in this situation.

I’d sell up everything to clear the mortgages and then really really downsize in a cheaper location if necessary with the leftover. I’d go NC and have an order for harassment served if she contacted your workplace etc. I know this is hard with a child but have an immediate relative who chose to do this in a very similar situation, otherwise the constant stress is too much. If her partner chooses to stay with her and put up with this (and believed it normal she came to his workplace to speak with his management!!!), then fool be him, he can lie in that bed.

"They agreed to pay back ..."

In writing?
Enforce it legally
Give them an eviction notice, issue a small claims court action for the missed payments

Not in writing?
You can try the small claims route but risk a magistrate who only goes by the letter of the law - even if you have communications between you acknowledging the debt, there's no 100% guarantee that will be enough in court

Keep your cards close to your chest and get legal advice as to what you can do regarding evicting her and reclaiming your cash.

You have two choices really, carry on as things are as her cash point or sever the relationship at least for now, possibly forever. If you decide to stop enabling her and I would agree with just about everyone else that it is the the right call, then sorting out this mess now is going to be a lot easier now then when you or your DH dies and only one of you is left with her and the boyfriend. As I have no doubt she will be after even more then as you will be outnumbered and she will be due her share and upset so need money.

Honestly, I really don’t think you should be enabling her to this degree, it isn’t healthy on anyone and you really need to ask yourself why you and your husband have gone so far down this route.

All of this!

Cut the rope.
Defund the spoilt brat.
Get your name off anything to do with her, and don't give her the home or a single penny. Claim back everything and cancel all communication.
Kick her out onto the street.

Actions have consequences and that manipulative little witch sounds like a jekyll amd hyde narcissist.

My brother did this to my mum.
Got 10K out of her, her to consign on loans, then orchestrated a falling out with her, so she was left high and dry paying off HIS DEBTS.
He is a scumbag.
Mum thought she was doing the right thing by her son. Yet her son used her.

She is a spoilt brat. She will never change. Get rid.

*edited to add, he also used crocodile tears. I'm in debt mum, I'm so depressed mum I cannot cope. He was her eldest and golden child. How could she say no to her tearful boy?
The second that he and his wife got the money, they changed and just went radio silent. They got what they wanted. She picked up the pieces. It broke her.

My mum had to declare herself bankrupt. Her health massively deteriorated and she was heartbroken.
She reached out to him when she was deathly ill, tried to reach out and asked to see him and his children.
He was full of excuses
Talk is cheap.
Now that she's just died recently, he's full of regret and tears to the extended family.
Yet he is the one who caused his own guilt.

Please look after yourself.
Hugs to you 🫂