Junior Doctors Unemployment in August part 2

[PurpleFairyLights]

Following on from previous thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5337022-junior-doctors-unemployment-in-august?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

Agree. I’ve heard real concerns voiced around the ability of the latest cohort of F1s coming through the system.

This article says nothing new. It’s very widely known that the plan is being published this week, they’re just getting the Welfare Bill out of the way. The term junior doctors seems quite hard to displace though, as an aside.

The plan pledges to “prioritise UK medical graduates” for junior doctor roles, aiming to prevent British-trained doctors from missing out on consultant-track positions, according to The Times

That’s an interesting paragraph.

I was talking with my husband about the merit based F1 system and we agree that while you don’t want the poorest grads consistently going to the less desirable areas every year, a system where there is no incentive to do more than just ‘pass’ is less than ideal.

@Sevillian What, all of them? why would this years cohort be any different than previous years?

No obviously not all of them. Some of them in a previously hard to get into deanery when the system was based on merit. The difference will be the most obvious in those deaneries.

Ah the insulting of young doctors continues. Not sure who said ‘F1s not very good now’, because if they are anyone in the medical profession they should be ashamed. Because they trained them.

Allocation of F1 needs to change from the random system. There does need to be some merit basis to it, but everyone should pass the UKLA ! By 5th year you should know your stuff - most weaker students will already have left. Most people pass PSA.

Today’s young doctors are awesome and deserve a job. Some graduates this year still don’t have an F1 place with 5 weeks to go.

UKG includes all graduates, international or not. We train them, we should employ them, sense prevails!!

@HostessTrolleywhy wouldn’t a medical graduate expect an F1 job ? No one thinks they should automatically get into training by CT1 but they should be able to get a trust grade or JCF. If they aren’t good enough they will fail ARCP.

Of course not all medical professionals have trained all UK medical school graduates.

Could we have some logic please.

This thread was about specialty training and higher specialty training. According to Google UKMLA was introduced in 2024 so doctors applying for specialty or higher specialty training would not have taken UKMLA. I know my DC did not do that exam.

And it’s designed to show you have the medical knowledge required to be a doctor. So everyone should pass after 5 years of study,

Ah the less than sevil is back, ALL UK doctors are trained by UK employed doctors - who else trains them on the wards ? PAs ??

Exactly. Concerned about those working in the NHS that have no respect for the quality of UK medical education or UKMGs.

It’s all immaterial what they think now. UKGs will get priority for jobs, like EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. Common sense has prevailed.

Exactly but there needs to be an investigation about this.

Follow the money …. PLAB needs to be halted until sorted out.

mumsneedwine I was back a couple of posts ahead of you.

I've already made the point (although it's stunningly obvious so shouldn't need to be said). Registrars/ consultants work in eg Hospital X, situated in one of the previously most competitive deaneries. F1s turn up in August on the new system. Their ability is capable of being judged at that point, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the medical professionals allocated to train them going forward.

That is elementary logic. They're just not impressive emerging from their medical school that's all.

Well gosh it's been said often enough across these threads by medical professionals working for the NHS that some medical schools are better than others; one consultant even went so far as to say that yes, perhaps it would be no back thing to lose a couple of the least good ones and cut back on the number of young people now able to get into medical school (the original thread I think - a long time ago at any rate).

Anyhow, back out again now :) The detail will be interesting when the plan is published.

UKGrads getting priority. So v simple.

Which medical schools were the underperformers from? There seems to be a general degree of coyness on here in terms of naming the alleged bad ones.

@Hollibobcat no list exists (except in the minds of the uneducated).

There has been a lot of smoke and mirrors on this thread.

She wasn't talking about F1 jobs, she was talking about training posts.

In the area of healthcare that I work in, if we have a student get to the end of the course who is not able to make the transition to being a safe productive practitioner then we deem that the student has been failed by us (as the clinical team supporting and mentoring them) and by the system. It is felt that concerns should have been raised sooner and the student either supported to get there, or encouraged to go do something where they can succeed. Some people are just not suited, it's not a matter of just being clever enough or working hard enough. Getting right to the end then failing is unfair to them and a waste of resources.

My d's view is that if someone isn't going to get though the postgrad exams or get into specialty training, then why has 'the system' not identified them and redirected them earlier, bearing in mind the timescales and financial costs involved for both the student and the system. Why should 'everyone' pass the UKMLA if they're not all going to make the grade in terms of getting into specialty training? How is staying around until they fail ARCP helping that student?

Of course I think that UKMGs should take priority when it comes to specialty training, but that's not the same as saying that every UKMG should get a training post. And it's not the same as saying UKMGs are rubbish.

No it’s entirely different from saying either of those things and it’s exactly what a number of posters have been saying repeatedly across the threads.

But in order to prevent the point being made that some medical graduates would be better suited to a different career, and aren’t up to the standard required for further training, the response has been a mixture of outrage and distorted imputations.

Various consultants (not usually thought to be ill educated but still) have explained at length on these various threads about which types of teaching are considered less robust. The whole thing goes round in circles. Just go back and read what’s already been said.

Bullshit. I mean, I can’t be clearer, but you just keep repeating this lie. Over and over. And over.

@Hollibobcat no medical schools have been mentioned. There have been suggestions that the ones that have PBL as part of the curriculum are substandard. Though I suspect it’s just one of the many tactics to derail the thread.