Junior Doctors Unemployment in August part 2

[PurpleFairyLights]

Following on from previous thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5337022-junior-doctors-unemployment-in-august?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

It’s already happening. IMGs can’t get jobs (as there are not enough with lots of new incoming IMGs) so can’t renew visas and consequently can’t rent as have proof of right to live here. What a mess.

IMGs and UK graduates both let down. I assume IMGs that cannot renew visas can work in their home country?

Yes. But some may have set up homes here for a few years and they are v v mad that the system has let them down too.

Exactly. Everyone has been let down.

Ladies,
This is the third thread you have created on this subject and I think everyone agrees unemployed doctors are not a great idea for the country or them.

However, numerous senior medics have come on your threads and said just because you are a doctor does not give your the right to specialist training - some people do not succeed because they are felt not to be ready, have the right skills etc. But you shoot everyone down who dares to proffer an educated, knowledgable view point and will not debate.

No one has called our UK graduate doctors - dumbed down -so do not imply they have. People have said working less hours than previous generations means that at any given timepoint the current generation have had less exposure and hence less experience -that can not be disputed but that does not mean they are lesser doctors.

This thread ahs opened with a full frontal attack on IMGs - who from what you ae saying - all bought their way into medical school, some may have but the vast majority did not. That is so deeply offensive to the many hard working talented doctors around the world - who work just as hard as UK graduates without having a slur like that put on them.

Physician Associates - are people who worked hard to get a qualification and training that this country offers. They did not cheat their way into the roles, they are used throughout the world very successfully. For those of us who work with these individuals, there is the full spectrum of brilliant to bad - just like there is among IMGs and UK graduates.

We all get your view point but the vitriol that has spilled out on this 3rd thread diminishes your arguments and you embarrass yourselves. Have a fair discussion without the insults please.

Not interested ? So don’t read the thread then. Who made you the arbiter of me ?

@wannabewitch and please learn to read, it’s not about speciality training, it’s about any job so not unemployed. Which some senior doctors have never faced and have no idea of the realities of being an F2 in 2025. Thankfully many do,

Oh and PAs who act as PAs are fine. Ones that act as doctors, and are given the training opportunities that should be given to doctors just embarrass the consultants allowing that to happen. It is your job to train doctors, but some just can’t be bothered.

Calling out poor behaviour - if the cap fits wear it!

Debate this

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2025-05-07/bma-we-could-potentially-see-thousands-of-unemployed-doctors

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-68849847.amp

https://news.sky.com/story/gps-working-as-uber-drivers-because-they-cant-find-jobs-as-medics-warn-of-unprecedented-crisis-13317540

If you really are a medic you must know this ? Or do you not listen to your staff ?

No doctor can work if they can’t reach competencies every year. And do expensive exams. - simply not true

well yes, that’s why they have ARCP every year -simply not true again

I do know this and have helped many obtain jobs in the last 6 months- I question what you have said over 3 threads and your assertion that all UK graduates should get specialist training of their choice.

I question your knowledge of what PAs do.

What bad behaviour ? Please expand

@wannabewitch PAs are doing operations, endoscopes, leading ward rounds, being first assistant in surgeries etc. And illegally prescribing. Surely you know about the Leng review and have read the evidence ?

@wannabewitch and no one, ever, has said all
UK graduates should get speciality training of their choice. I have said UK trained staff should get priority (like every other country in the world). How have you got these F2s jobs ? Do you have a magic wand to unfreeze recruitment ? Last week there were 5 jobs available for F2s in the whole country. Please share your secrets to the young doctors trying for jobs and for ST3/CT3s who are unemployed in 6 weeks.

if you are unable to recognise your own deeply offensive comments about other professions you have no knowledge of, or of medical training in other countries - then you are more ignorant than you come across.

Likewise, many consultants have faced unemployment throughout their training, many went overseas to get work - agian you ignorance comes through

I have spoke to many, many consultants and not one has ever been unemployed. You obviously work in a different NHS to them.

Please highlight my offensive remarks and ignorance ? PAs are assistants (as AU vs GMC has shown). Those that work as them are great, but if you want to play doctor, go to medical school.

I await the details of my offensive ignorant behaviour.

And I’ve never commented on training abroad ? Strange comment, almost like the chip on your shoulder is getting salty.

Medical education in the UK is still the gold standard (why so many want to come here) and v robust. IMGs can buy their way into training - that is offensive.

Many consultants faced not having a job at the end of their contracts which historically were for 6 - 12 months with the continuous round of applying, whilst studying and working 100+ hours per week. Many got down to the wire in getting a job or took a break.

Again, for the hard of understanding

I agree, consultants this year are also struggling to get jobs. Madness isn’t it ?

And surely you know about the scandals abroad of people paying for answers to Plab ? And companies in India signing Crest forms for cash ? It is the good doctors from these countries who have spilled the beans as they are disgusted by it all. Never have I disparaged their training, just the ethics done have used to get here.

One such case

https://www.gmc-uk.org/registration-and-licensing/join-our-registers/plab/plab-1-guide/case-study-of-a-candidate-misconduct-at-the-plab-exam

WE can all find examples to justify our arguments but are you seriously suggesting that no UK graduate has ever cheated on an exam - then you are delusional

This is so true

I’m sorry I didn’t see this thread earlier but I see the vote didn’t need any help from me.

The situation here for drs is a national disgrace .

Disgrace it maybe but it does not justify the sweeping inflammatory offensive comments accusing IMGs of cheating and physicians associates of being dangerous.
Some will have cheated and some PAs work outside their capabilities but then so do some UK medical graduates.

I work with IMGs, PAs and UK graduates - I would not walk on the ward today and ask them if any of them they cheated to get their qualifications but I do as them regularly if they feel confident to manage certain situations - that is called training.

Happy to debate the topic but not when sweeping insults are levelled at minority groups.