Child’s Friend Calling DH A Racist Name

[kurotora]

I’m a bit flabbergasted at this!

DD5 (Reception) occasionally brings home a friend to play, friend’s mum doesn’t come with. DH picks them up, he also does almost every pick up and drop off so he’s the one the other kids see most.

Today the friend came back to the house and three times called DH by a racist name - “karate chops” - he’s British Vietnamese. We both looked at each other in shock. The third time I told her that she must not call him that -he’s DD’s Dad. I asked her why she called him that name but she just laughed.

AIBU to be really annoyed about this? I don’t think the child got it from her mum, who is a single parent and not British herself, she doesn’t seem like the type and she’s been very nice to us.

DD is suffering a lot of bullying in school and this has incensed me as I feel like it may be coming from another child in class.

Exactly it’s like the words banana and monkeys aren’t racist but fans at European football matches throwing bananas at black players or making references to monkey and bananas in regards to black players obviously is. People are being deliberately obtuse here.

In the end, DH is the one in charge of what to do, and he doesn’t want to say anything. His attitude is that “you start talking about these things and draw attention to them, then it makes it become A Thing, you need to ignore them or it makes it worse.

OP, I’m sorry your husband feels this ways and it’s just not true. Keeping your head down won’t make things better, things will likely escalate as time goes on if anything. While you need to respect how he as a man of Vietnamese origin wants to handle things, you must also be mindful of your daughter being affected by unchecked racism so do continue to keep an eye on them.

Yeah I had a white friend married to a mixed race man - black and (white) French - who had some racial identity issues. He was the type to just hang his head or shrug things off and not challenge things despite his wife wanting to. And it had a terrible effect on his older kids who have now inherited his hang ups.

Conversely I have another friend who is married to a black man and they are both very vocal at addressing things like this and their children have a lot of pride in their heritage.

Tell the mum that her kid will only be welcomed at your home once the kid stops the racist bullying. She seems nice but that’s no excuse for her kid being nasty to your child. If she’s a good person she’ll parent correctly and stop racist abuse.

Oh god i remember my friend shouting Floella at random black women in the 80’s 🫣
we were very young and it wouldn’t have been intended to cause offence but still

Off topic but I had a friend who looks like that Angelica the CBeebies presenter 😂A bunch of kids shouted that at her and she found it funny, because she actually does look like Angelica so they weren’t being racist.

There were other black women in the group but the kids didn’t call them Angelica, so they were actually very observant and discerning to accurately see the resemblance between this specific girl and Angelica 😂

This is of course very different to what’s being described in this thread but the floela references reminded me of that incident.

Sadly op there are quite a few people who wouldn't even view it as racist. Tbh Iv had my eyes opened recently as one dc has two friends who are people of colour (we live in a super white area and ooozing white privilege) The amount of comments they receive in line with their race or skin tone at school is disgusting

I can’t believe people are saying terms are not racist simply because they haven’t heard of them. Such an unintelligent thing to say.

I am of Southeast Asian origin. If somebody called me ‘Miss chicken tikka’, I can definitely tell you that I would find it racist. Despite chicken tikka not being a racist term. Is that so hard to grasp?

I wonder if people remember Jane Goody and her Shilpa Poppadom comment. I absolutely did not agree with the witch hunt that ensued but this was a racist phrase.

Some people are beyond education here though.

I’ve reported you for your racism and racist apologism. When someone clearly, calmly and consistently explains to you why something is racist and you continue to insist it’s not, then you are the problem. Stop being so racist.

I’m of East Asian extraction and have heard it all, I did Goju Ryu karate when young so could have had a scrap in the style expected though then yiu would be the one in trouble.

It is racist but the child saying it is so young they will probably not understand this. Speak to the school.

The school sounds bad I wouldn’t have tolerated the violence and their handling of it was very poor.

East Asians tend to get on with stuff and are not that vocal about what they endure. I also had the horror of what number are you on the menu? Or are you number 69 on the menu ? countless times when being sexually harassed when young.

Beware that for your DD, yellow fever is a thing especially with anime being so popular now. I still get men being a bit weird towards me.

You need to put your concerns in writing to the head, be explicit, tell them its unacceptable behaviour (bullying) and you want it to be dealt with, name names. In my experience they only take any action once it is in writing because it goes on file and the inspectorate / ofsted expects the school to respond appropriately, they don't want something like that on file and they need to show they have acted on the complaint.

I’m glad. @Livelovebehappy is a fucking disgrace. (I bet I’m deleted first though)

@Livelovebehappy, the simple test as to whether something is racist or "just" offensive is to ask yourself whether the offensive word or phrase in question would be targeted equally towards people from all races. If it is likely that a particular word or phrase would be aimed at people from certain ethnicities more than others, then it is racist. There is no room for debate on this.

In this case, it's pretty obvious that the phrase has been used because of the DH's ethnic origin. We can reasonably assume that the child would not have called him "karate chops" if he had been white. Or indeed, if he had been black. Hence, the use of the words was racist, even though a 5yo probably had a very limited understanding of the rights and wrongs of this, as the OP has already acknowledged.

By insisting that it is "just" offensive and not racist, you are seeking to minimise the racism which is obviously a factor, and you are trying to gaslight the OP. This is not just a matter of opinion. There is simply no argument to say that "offensive" language that is targeted at people from specific ethnic backgrounds is not inherently racist.

Please just stop.

And??????? Not sure I understand.

Oh my god as if someone asked you this. I think you need to escalate and potentially get local MP involved because the school are doing nothing about racist bullying. This will all be extremely traumatic and impactful on your child.

Nobody needs to explain anything to you. If you’re that ignorant, I suggest you go and educate yourself.

Sorry, but I'm not sure if I have understood. Are you suggesting that it would be OK to call the OP's DH "karate chop" if he was Japanese rather than Vietnamese? Because that's how your post comes across.

Unfortunately it seems that racism towards East Asians is minimised where it certainly wouldn’t be towards some other groups. It should all be equally unacceptable.

OP, I must say that it’s a myth that any racism is dealt with that well in most schools. So it’s wrong to say it would be considered unacceptable if it were other groups. All racism towards people of colour is minimised in many schools unfortunately.

I say this as a former educator who has worked in multiple schools in England and seen abuse of Black, mixed and South Asian kids brushed under the carpet and had to advocate on behalf of parents and kids .

Are you in Scotland? A woman in Fife was telling me the awful racist violence her (mixed race black) son had suffered over a period of years including violent attacks . A friends mixed /black daughter from just outside Glasgow was badly bullied for years and was even on the news about it. in both instances the schools didn’t take it seriously.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-60928666.amp

No sorry didn’t mean for it to sound like that, it is racist remark. I’m just saying the kid is 5 and I feel like they say silly harmless things at that age. Did you know what racism was at that age?

Thank you for clarifying.

In answer to your question about whether i knew what racism was at that age, actually, yes I did, because I had parents that talked about that kind of thing. But I understand that many 5yos probably don't.

I don't think anyone is actually holding a 5yo accountable for making racist comments though... the OP and others have acknowledged that the child is not to blame as he was probably just parroting what he had heard from someone else without really understanding the implications of what he was saying. That doesn't change the fact that he made a racist comment, though, and it needs to be addressed as such while taking his age and likely lack of understanding into account. The most important thing in this situation is probably to ascertain where the child is picking up this kind of racist language or thinking and to deal with it at source.

I think this is the best way to deal with it, at least the Mum will have a word with her after and hopefully that's the end of it.
I think at this age the child wont really understand the implications of what they are saying, they probably think it's a joke or not that serious (probably picked up from school rather than at home?)

Op, first of all of course it's racist.

Second, I do think you should talk to the school in case the friend has picked it up from there (or in case they inadvertently popularise it there and your dd is already having problems.) I wouldn't necessarily name the child if you do decide to talk to the school mostly because if you name the child the school might think that your issue is with the child (as so many posters on this thread do) rather than the school environment and the bullying there.

Have you asked your dd if she has heard this particular term before?

To be honest, irrespective of whatever this child has said I'd come down pretty hard on the school. It sounds like a fairly horrible place.

Also, I disagree that this is ultimately your dh's decision and about what he is most comfortable with. It is about what is best for your dd and your opinion is equally valid in that. Hearing racist things about her dad affects her directly. Besides, racism already is a thing. It won't become more of a thing by talking about it but I agree with you that the main people to talk to are the school. You don't have to tell the friend anything beyond asking her to call dh dd's dad. Having said that if I was the mum of that child I'd want to know if my child said something racist.

Look I agree with what you’re saying in some sense but ‘ needs to be addressed’…. Us humans can’t not control what others say and we can have an opinion on what’s right and wrong, OP needs to educate her child and leave it at that, kids will be kids and if her child wants to still see this racist child then they will just have to set boundaries in their home. Also the school aren’t going to give two monkeys on comments made outside of school. Too many parents on here giving it the big I am, look after your own child and teach them. You can control other factors In their lives. It really is as simple as that.

It really isn't as simple as that, though, and I fundamentally disagree with you that people should not attempt to address the wider issues. It has fuck all to do with being "the big I am" and everything to do with being part of a wider community and helping to shape the next generation and the kind of society that we want our kids to live in.

And even if you only focus on teaching your own kids, surely a big part of that is teaching them to stand up for what is right and to take action when they see things that wrong. I don't think children who are exposed to racism against themselves or their family members should be taught to just put up and shut up. They should be taught to speak out because they shouldn't have to tolerate it.

I also think you're wrong that the school aren't going to be interested in something that happened outside of school. Obviously, I don't know the OP's school, but having served as as a school governor for many years, I can tell you that many schools would absolutely want to know about stuff like this happening outside of school, they would take it seriously, and they are probably regularly involved in dealing with stuff outside of school already.

You're right, of course, that we cannot control every factor in their lives, but that isn't an excuse to just shrug it off and say oh well, racists will be racists. Attitudes like that are part of the problem.

Ok.
I would really appreciate it if you didn’t swear at me.
Good on you girl.

You're more worried about swearing than racism?

OK then.