I don’t want my mum to tag along to every holiday

[Birdsongjacky]

My dad is now in a care home, my mum has got a difficult personality (narcissistic/BPD/manipulative - not sure but you get the idea!) and has always had a major obsession with holidays and always been jealous of people on holiday. Since my dad can no longer go away and is only really with us in mind now, she has turned largely to me to take her on holiday with us (I am married with young children). The problem is, the 2 occasions we have taken her have essentially ruined it for me because I am a massive people pleaser and I find it is just another dependent human being who I have to factor in to plans. She doesn’t have the same ideas or priorities as me (my focus is on my children) she’s really demanding about being busy during the day and not returning to the accommodation for a chill or spending the day on the beach when we would prefer the pool etc. the most recent time I wanted to call time on a day out because we were soaked through, the kids were tired and grumpy, and she basically fell out with me for not giving her a full day experience.

any destination I mention she has started saying “can I come?” Which is also really awkward. To make matters worse when she is with us she is very dependent, she doesn’t eg prepare the evening meal, or bring a packed lunch, she sits there expectantly, and it really winds me up.

essentially, I don’t mind incorporating her in to some (shorter) trips, but want to preserve perhaps bigger family holidays to my little family unit, but am just overwhelmed with guilt and fear of telling her we want to go alone.

anyone had something similar?

You have to stop discussing holidays with her at the planning stage. Don’t discuss it until you’ve booked it’s too late to accommodate her etc. you can tell a white lie that it’s a last minute booking. She doesn’t need to know you booked it 6 months before.

We overcame this issue by having a couple of very active holidays with practically no alcohol as we were always up and out early the following morning. Neither my mother nor in-laws asked to join us again as we focused on the children’s needs only and not theirs. In laws wanted culture, historic stuff etc, my mother wanted drinking but DH and the children wanted sailing, surfing, fishing, hiking. DH and I had it all planned, he took charge and was very much ‘the next activity is …. Keep up ….. Get your wetsuits/walking boots/swimsuits/whatever on’ Then we had compulsory board games in the evening. We all had a great time but the oldies didn’t want any more holidays with us 😂.

I find your response very interesting - instead of taking the feedback on the chin, and realising that actually, you have been prioritising your mum over your little family unit. You twist it to “oh I’m such a bad person” - is that something your mum does? Please do not be like that with your kids!

What you have described is a) not fair on your DH, and b) not great behaviour for your kids to witness.

It’s not kind to take her along, it’s destructive.

Why doesn’t she book a cruise, there’s always lots of solos and they look after them, tables set aside, socials to meet people etc plus of course there’s organised excursions.

Good idea

I find it is just another dependent human being who I have to factor in to plans. She doesn’t have the same ideas or priorities as me (my focus is on my children) she’s really demanding about being busy during the day and not returning to the accommodation for a chill or spending the day on the beach when we would prefer the pool etc.

So tell her this. Remind her of how she fell out with you last time for spoiling her full day out. Tell her that you are just incompatible where holidays are concerned and she'd have a better time with a group holiday for people her own age. You don't need to be rude about it, but just do it. Blame your husband if you like. Say he needs to decompress from work and prefers to holiday just the two of you and the children because he doesn't have the energy to have to chat to someone else the whole time.

any destination I mention she has started saying “can I come?”

Surely you know the answer to this? Stop telling her about places you are thinking of going. Just don't bring the subject up. Ever. If she does, stay vague and non-committal and say you haven't made any plans yet. If she suggests you start making plans together, see above. Say no. Remind her you are incompatible in your needs and you and your DH want some time alone. If your mother really is a narcissist/BPD type then you are just going to have to not worry about offending her. She clearly doesn't worry about offending anyone else.

No I struggle massively with anxiety actually and it is causing me to spin out a bit. I have absolutely taken on board that many people clearly think I am exposing my children to abusive behaviour and not putting them or my husband first and I am really reflecting on it, but imagine hearing that yourself when you are already feeling really guilty about your own mother? If you haven’t had this situation in your life that that’s really good for you, but a little compassion for how difficult it can be for other people would go a long way. i hope my children see that they are my priority at all times, but that I try to care for other family members too, that’s all

Stop being such a people pleaser. Don’t invite her. The end.

I think you also need to hold onto the fact that many (most?) families, even where everyone is perfectly kind, agreeable etc don't holiday together multi generationally. There is zero obligation, social or otherwise to do so. Neither of my parents ever so much as spent a night away with us when my ex-husband was on the scene, it wouldnt have occured to anybody to do so. We did do a few 2-3 day trips with just me, my mother and the children and they were perfectly nice but again, they were an active choice because my mother is good fun, not fussy, etc. I wouldn't have dreamt of doing similar with my father

You need to make your own plans and not tell her until last minute. If she gets upset then it’s time for that grown up conversation that you need family time and she can make her own plans with friends .If you like you could suggest one weekend away with just you two but stress it’s equal pay and effort. Reminds me of holidays with adult chn!!

Have you discussed what went wrong on previous holidays?
Mum, we have kids, sometimes plans need to change and be adaptable. You arent adaptable. You have a certain type of holiday in mind and its not the same as ours. You aren't wrong for wanting a full active itinerary but neither are we wrong for doing what works for us.
If we go on one more holiday together we are at real risk of falling out for good. You need to find other holiday friends that enjoy the same stuff, and lets keep our outings to days out.

OP please don't focus so much on the impact on your dh and dc, I think people were going for that angle just in case it's the thing that could persuade you to put your foot down.

That's not the most important thing. It's for you to see that it IS possible to overcome the guilt and enmeshment. Honestly. Several of us on this thread have done it, you can too.

Practice the conversation and be honest if you can. So something like:
No Mum after the last 2 times there won’t be any more holidays with us. You don’t help or contribute to anyone else’s holiday and you make them very hard work for me. So I’m afraid that this is my final decision and it’s not up for discussion.

@Birdsongjacky This reminds me of my mum. It got to the point that sometimes I go on holiday and don’t tell her - or one time I told her as i’m sitting in the lounge at the airport. Btw - I’m going to so and so. Do the same. Your kids are only small for a short period of time. And family time is important. Book the holiday. And if she says can I come? Just say sorry mum we have already booked and we just wanted to go as a family this time. Otherwise your holidays sound like a nightmare.

I feel your pain. Your mum sounds a lot like my mum. Lives alone and wants to be part of everything we do. And often upsets my kids as she has no filter. I had to just book things not including her and just say "we are off to Lanzarote in a couple of weeks" . She would try to guilt trip me but I had to ignore it and change the subject. It really would have ruined our holidays to take her with us. Luckily she lives quite far away so easier to not get pinned down by her.
Just plan something and book it. Tell her once it is too late to change, and be vague about where exactly you are going so she can't book herself in too. If she challenges, say "this time we thought it would be nice to just go as she four of us, as we never have". It is hard, and you will feel guilty but you have the right to the holiday you want.

What precisely are you worried will happen? Do you have no siblings who equally find her a pita or are you the only one who tolerates her demands? Are you concerned she’ll fall out with you? Did a grandparent accompany your childhood holiday (bet they didn’t)?

Grey rock is hard, not telling her about your plans is hard, but I think you have to be harsh or very honest with her. I think not telling her is preferable because no matter what you say re her not wanting (ruining) the same thing as you, she will promise to do whatever you want then completely go back on this once there. I bet your Dh is fed up.

People are being ridiculous, she’s your Mum, you can’t just grey rock her and not tell her where you are going on holiday. Next time she says ‘can I come?’ I would say ‘Well I worry we hold you back Mum, the kids need a break in the day and so do I. We like chilling in the apartment whilst you can stay out all day. Last time I was just knackered Mum. I just want us all to get what we want out of a holiday, it’s so much money. You could have a lovely time and eat in lovely restaurants, drink your weight in sangria and sightsee beautiful places if you went alone or with friends. But we need family friendly places, plastic high chairs, place to park a buggy, somewhere not too hot, bit of shade. I just worry we need completely different things from a holiday and me and Pete just can’t afford to compromise. I don’t want to upset you, but the kids take priority for us. What do you think? Would you prefer to go away with friends? Or alone? Or perhaps Auntie Jane would like a trip? We have to be practical.

And then you have to keep repeating the cycle. However awful she may be, no one deserves this kind of dishonesty and prevarication. Just tell her family holidays are out but offer her something - weekend away just the two of you, acvompany her on a group holiday to get the feel for it, maybe do a night or two away just you her and the children.

How do you think some of the people answering came up with their answers?

They've dealt with your mom's type.

If you are exposing your kids to manipulative people who pull all sorts of stunts to get their way, you're prioritizing the manipulator over your kids.

Your kids should be able to take a damn family vacation where their wishes are pretty important, not your mother's.

She has a mad fit? BFD. Block her.

My mom was like that. She came to visit during a time when I was working 12 hours nights shifts and work was emotionally draining. She complained about me having to sleep. She complained about where we went to eat and what we did and the weather and everything. Guess who never came for another visit because I said no.?

Please don't use this terminology with your mum but definitely don't go on holiday with her. Be vague about where you're going and when e.g. Spain in mid June rather than Barcelona on the 13th of June.

I voted YABU because why do you let her come? Why do you even tell her you're going away?

Wise up @Birdsongjacky or nothing will change.

Unfortunately, MN is often not the place to come for compassion. It seems to be a hobby for some MNers to pick apart someone’s post and bash them repeatedly until they disappear feeling a bit beaten xxx

That's a bit strange to be honest.

No it isn’t, not everyone is close to their families and talks to them a lot

Honestly, this OP. Next holiday don't tell her about it - just go on it. Tell her when you're there or just before - last minute deal. Plan your response to her reaction.

You've already done the kind thing twice and she has completely messed that up. You tried - twice. You're enabling her ways now and being very unfair on you, your husband and your children. I very much regret the precious years I wasted on this kind of thing - don't leave it as long as I did!

Whilst I haven't had the holiday scenario there have been plenty of others. I had to have counsellling to get 'permission' to have some proper boundaries. I found some of the suggestions quite shocking at first - things like 'don't answer the door' if they come round unannounced (when asked not to for many, many years - and usually to create drama of some kind). I gasped 'I can't do that!!'. Now I look back and it seems so obvious, and doable. Never actually have done that but there was a shift - I could communicate my wishes without guilt and have become almost immune to manipulation. That meant facing the inevitable drama in a very calm way. Drama has very much died down now - they know it doesn't work. Life it much better. Best money I ever spend in hindsight.