Brother has found parents’ wills

[ChorltonCreamery]

My mother tripped over a few days ago. Initially all seemed fine. Friend brought her home but the next day she went to a walk in. It was felt that she might need a procedure on her wrist.

What I only found out yesterday was that Dad rang one of my brothers to go through his desk to find this policy they have, a medical insurance that kicks in if NHS waiting list is too long. In the process of doing this he found their wills and read them.

Yesterday Brother asked if I could go round to his but I couldn’t as we are away. This afternoon sister texts me to call her back, it turns our parents have divided their estate into four. Three quarters between brother, sister and me with a quarter going to other brother’s child(ren) with us three acting as trustees.

Brother 2 is not included, we think because sister in law has two children from previous marriage and there has been drama from them.

Brother wants me and sister to meet for a chat about everything.

He says that the wills were not in a marked file and he had to go through lots of stuff in order to find the insurance.

I don’t know what to think, or what I am meant to think. Sisters annoyed with brother for even telling us.

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Most people are missing the point ,it doesn't matter if it is unfair- that is the parent's right.The excluded brother has no reasonable excuse to have read the will- end of.

That’s exactly the case, the GPs have decided to gift to their DGC. Which of course is their choice.

My brother ASKED my parents to leave his share of their estate direct to his Dc.

And had they died before they reached 18 it would have gone into Trust. Til they were 18.

The brother might already know what is in the will.

When you bequeath an estate you don't have to benefit GC or anyone else-it is up to you, fairness does not enter into it. You have the same freedom with your own will.

God that is disgusting. Your parents have disinherited their child because they can’t bear the idea of anything in the future possibly going to step-GDC. Apparently this is a thing that a lot of people do. Awful. Your brother is right - this will cause strife and you are very naive if you think you won’t be dragged into it.

"...if all beneficiaries agree"

That's interesting. I thought that it was any beneficiaries left worse off have to agree, not necessarily all beneficiaries?

"...and their parents have a conflict of interest."

I'm a little confused by this point. Regardless of whether their parents have a conflict of interest or not, the parents cannot agree to anything at all on behalf of their children. Or so I thought?

Yes that struck me. Its wholly inappropriate to set up or even plan a trust without the trustees’ agreement and IME I had to sign documents to say I was willing to be a trustee.

It is entirely up to the parents how they wish to leave their assets (assuming England and Wales) but its stupid to keep it secret from the family. Leaving money in trust to children with only the siblings of the living, competent parents as trustees is going to lead to fractured sibling relations in future. I would not leave this bomb to fall on my adult DC after my death, its really unfair on all the DC.

That's interesting. I thought that it was any beneficiaries left worse off have to agree, not necessarily all beneficiaries?

Any beneficiaries affected have to agree.

I couldn't have the simplicity of a DOV when my father died because my brother wouldn't agree. Instead I had to disclaim the inheritance and it was more complicated as the executors had no experience of dealing with someone disclaiming. My share was split between my siblings so the brother who wouldn't agree to DOV would have, and indeed did ultimately, end up with more money.

But the son could inherit
he die and the money goes to his wife
and she can leave it to her kids
so the grandparents money goes to people they are related to

if it was me I would ensure that my grandkids got my money If there was a possibility of it going to someone else especially if I didn’t like them

and it’s probably a large amount to involve a trust so it makes even more sense

you would honestly be happy with giving your son say 500k for it to go to his wife and her children if he died and your own grandkids got 0

Well IMO nobody is actually entitled to anything in anyone’s will parents or not so leave well alone! You aren’t supposed to know & it’s their business if you get anything you get it if you don’t so what! They can leave whatever they choose to charity if that’s their wishes! If you love your parents enjoy them while they are still actually alive!

That’s precisely what I have been recommendig since very early in the thread…

The current will doesn’t protect family assets, anyway; any of the other three children, or indeed their own children, could later end up married to someone with unrelated children just like the disinherited brother. All their current will is likely to do is cause huge problems within the family while still not protecting family assets.

It’s very silly and one would hope it’s been drafted that way out of ignorance rather than spite and the parents will be glad that by chance they now have an opportunity to get proper financial planning advice and rectify it.

RTT.

Why do people keep posting the same nonsense when numerous posters have explained that it doesn’t protect family assets, anyway?

He should not have opened it.
He was asked to look for something else
He may have accidentally found it but he didn't accidentally read it.
That is snooping
It's none of anyone's business at this stage

They can do as they like unless you are in Scotland

As @Wooky073pointed out, your unwarranted personal comments to other posters are extremely unpleasant. They also reveal that you haven’t read the thread given I’d stated explicitly I have no “skin in this game” as I won’t be receiving any inheritance from family. My knowledge of the topic is from a being appointed a trustee more than once by other families due to my professional background, and in terms of having done appropriate planning for what I will leave for my own children.

How ironic given that’s precisely what you’re advocating!

I think that the parents were keen to ensure that their Estate is passed exclusively to their biological line - they may even have experience of when things have gone awry in previous generations. My great grandparents left their Estate (a house and a couple of gold watches) to their eldest son - who was a middle aged bachelor when they died. It was on the understanding that he passed these on to his siblings and their families when he died. He unexpectedly married a woman with an adult child at 50 (a few years after his parents died). When he died a few years later - everything went to his widow and her son and lost to the original family. When my own grandfather died (the younger son in the example above) he left everything to his children as he was concerned his widow might re-marry and the same problem happen! (They were married for over 50 years and were in their 80s when he died).
Personally I think what they've done is entirely reasonable and wouldn't even piss me off if I was the affected sibling - as long as my children had my 'share'.

I would not get involved with any conversation as your parents could find that very devious.
If you need to tell anyone, tell your parents!
They have made a compromise about the brothers kids not missing out.
The thing about Wills is there not supposed to be read until the owner is dead, so they don’t have to justify anything to anyone!
If it were me, I’d exclude anyone who wants to argue my will!

Everything should be divided as the parents see fit, if they want to leave it to the postman’s cat, that’s their choice!

Exactly. No one has any "right" to an inheritance. It's up to the donor, and no one else, who they leave their money to. There should certainly be no expectation or demand that it's "left equally".

She did it because she & her husband had no children, were aware of the potential cost of care & so left all their money to each other with the proviso that the remainder be split equally between both families on the second death. Maybe because one beneficiary was in the middle of a messy divorce. Her financial advisor recommended it. What is the drawback?

Yes the parents can leave what they like to whom they like but the method described in the OP is both guaranteed to leave a load of strife behind them and ignores the fact that you need to consent to being a trustee, you can’t be forced to take on the role.

The brother should not have been reading the Wills without permission but the parents shouldn’t be setting up expectations of trusts without the trustees’ involvement and consent. Wise parents also do not leave shocks for their DC in their Wills, assuming they give a shit about their DC.

There is also a moving rule of thumb number that a trust is not worth setting up unless the sum involved is big enough. Current common figure for that level in England seems to be about 250k so the brother’s 1/4 of the net estate after tax needs to be of that size to be worth the costs of a trust.

"There is also a moving rule of thumb number that a trust is not worth setting up unless the sum involved is big enough. Current common figure for that level in England seems to be about 250k so the brother’s 1/4 of the net estate after tax needs to be of that size to be worth the costs of a trust."

The trust would be for the grand children while they are under the age of 18.

People under the age of 18 cannot inherit in the UK and anything left to them in a will must be placed in trust until they reach the age of 18 (or any other age stated in the will)

@IcyRedCat OPs previous threads have mentioned that this particular DIL has threatened to keep their grandchild away from them because they didn't include her other children (who have behavioural issues) in every single activity they did. Even ones where not all biological grandchildren were being included anyway. I can understand that leaving a bitter taste and a subsequent poor relationship. Especially if their son, who is an equal parent to their grandchild, didn't speak up and support his parents having a relationship with his daughter.

There is also a moving rule of thumb number that a trust is not worth setting up unless the sum involved is big enough. Current common figure for that level in England seems to be about 250k so the brother’s 1/4 of the net estate after tax needs to be of that size to be worth the costs of a trust.

Depends more on the type of trust than the the amounts. A simple "will trust" or "bare trust" can cost next to nothing. Likewise "maintenance and accumulation" trusts can be pretty easy and cheap to administer. Discretionary trusts are more complicated. Also depends whether the trustees can administer them personally or whether they're going to need professionals to help them, i.e. solicitors and accountants where there obviously will be fees to pay. Hopefully whichever solicitor was engaged to write the will in the OPs case would have explained the different types of trusts and what level of costs would be involved.