To absolutely not want closer ties to Europe

[Viviennemary]

What is the matter with Stammer toadying up to the EU. We voted Out. Has he forgotten. I switched the TV off when I heard the word contribution and free movement. Here we go again. Shafted and ripped off at every turn and following their dumb rules. It's groundhog day. I'm furious.

A good day in the office for Starmer. Much as I’d like to rejoin, these deals had smoothed out some of the bigger issues with exporting and importing food, encouraging International students, security links… the fishing industry was shafted by Brexit but now they can export more easily. Not perfect but better.

The fact Farage (he with an EU pension) and Tice are in meltdown says it was a good thing and shows them up for the lying charlatans they are.

I asked.abour.the legislation before and someone came up with a regulation regarding offshore deep diving..and he preferred the tighter UK regs rather than the Eu that was more lax. No details, just "i don't want..blah blah' Well done Govt

Ah, a thread by Viviennemary. This will be well thought out and constructive.

Also, why do so many Brexiteers confused “EU” and “Europe”? Do you think Starmer is going to hook a giant lasso over France and start pulling to get closer?

We aren’t … never in discussion as we have nt rejoined.

The infuriating bit is we had a referendum to decide if we wanted to stay or leave, regardless of personal views on the outcome, the vote was to leave, apparently it is perfectly acceptable though for the government to decide to move towards rejoining without asking the people, maybe call another election if Labour is so certain this is what people want

Quite!

Exactly. I've seen enough of this ill informed shit from doubling down Brexiteers today already.

You're entitled to your opinion, OP, but I think we've all had enough of non experts.

How is a trade deal “living under EU laws” ?

We have a trade deal with the USA. Are we
”living under US laws” ?

We have a trade deal with India. Are we
“living under Indian laws” ?

It’s about time we got back to trading smoothly and efficiently with our nearest and dearest neighbours instead of being weird grumpy isolationist island monkeys.

She's not going to tell us because she can't.

I flew into Amsterdam three weeks ago.

It took me longer to get through passport control than the length of the flight.

Meanwhile there were a huge number of eGates just standing empty which the Brits could have used as we have compliant passports.

All we have to do here is actually share information and the little eGates can still stop people we don't want coming in - they are better at spotting irregularities than humans.

It's ridiculous.

@Viviennemary why are you furious? What have you gain so far? ** - I think the more important question here would be why wouldn’t you want to have closer ties with Europe? The EU is a huge trading block and countries within it hold the oldest alliances with the UK. We share similar values and hold the democratic process as a way of providing a fairer way of living for its people. It’s bizarre to me to think that the UK shouldn’t have closer ties!

It's not moving towards rejoining.

These small changes to make trade and travel easier for us and Europeans aren't going to do that.

Your objection to being governed by EU laws and saying that they could overturn decisions made in our courts is hilarious. This agreement doesn't do that. However, absolutely loads of Reform voters went mad when the summer rioters were jailed for incitement to commit violence by burning down hotels housing asylum seekers. I bet they would have loved those sentences to be overturned by another court, even a European one.

We aren't
Hth

Pissed off about coming in 19th place... me too! And behind Isreal... they are not even in Europe.
I hate Eurovision law too.. so unfair.

You aren't governed by EU law and the EU has no power to overturn laws or legal decisions in the UK.

Do you have even the smallest idea what you actually voted for with Brexit? It doesn't appear so.

This is hilariously incoherent.

No, the infuriating bit was when the ballot paper included no information about the type of Brexit that was on offer but due to the idiots who were doing the negotatiations, we got the hardest of Brexits that politicians championing Brexit during the run up to the vote certainly didn't make clear.

I love it when people show their ignorance about what they voted for.

The ECHR - which has, for example, been responsible for some of the greatest improvements in the interpretation of employment law - arises from the Council of Europe. We are still in the Council of Europe. That was never on the vote.

Want to try to find an objection that actually was on the vote?

What would you have done? There is a large market to our south and east which is worth many more times that of the USA and India combined. Or do you want us to just trade with....ourselves? Oh yes and there's Ireland next door. Enormous market.

What does "toadying up" mean, in your world? Actual grown up interaction, negotiation and give and take, as opposed to the bombastic combative "that'll tell them" school of diplomacy as practised by Messrs Johnson, Rhys-Mogg, Farage etc?

Which laws are you concerned about exactly? How exactly is your life being adversely affected by "EU laws"?

I am pretty sure the EU wouldn't let us rejoin!! Closer ties with neighbours are a good thing in the current uncertain times and what Starmer is doing in no way renders us subject to "EU laws".

If you voted Leave on the understanding that we were not going to have close ties to an EU that we literally have a land border with, that's your own fuckwit fault and nobody else's.

Good point

Trump and Russia are behaving erratically and aggressively so we should be close to our European neighbours for our good and theirs.
OP- Note I say European not EU

There has never been a referendum for a middle of the road arrangement where we have economic ties but not political ties. That should have been an option and would be the second best choice for many.

The EU started off as a trade deal only. The EEC. Most folk forget that.