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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think unless you are ugly you’ve no idea what it’s like

344 replies

Riverrunswild83 · 19/05/2025 09:43

It’s made my life so difficult.
I understand about being a nice person etc and I am, I think. I try to be kind. I have hobbies. I don’t think I’m super dull or boring.

But I am ugly.

I a regularly ignored, even more so now I’m 40, and I’ve had friends openly laugh at the idea of me wearing a certain thing or going to a certain event.
I frequently feel more and more that the world is not set up for ugly people. It has hampered relationships and friendships and I believe my job prospects. It’s amazing how attractive people have an automatic advantage - this isn’t bitterness, it is fact. People flock to what they see as attractive and value it. Sure, I have made a reasonable reputation but I have had to work much harder for it.

I really think being ugly has made my life at least twice as hard as if I were average or attractive - from not getting served quickly in places, to struggling to make friends. People always assume if you are ugly you are worthless and increasingly I am starting to feel like I am.

AIBU to think the world is just not set up for ugly people?

OP posts:
Stifledlife · 20/05/2025 09:12

Sadly this is very very true, but as I've aged what I've found is that the overlooked and unattractive had to find a way to navigate life. The beautiful didn't.
The grey hair and wrinkles of older life mean that there will always be someone more attractive than the most beautiful coming up behind them, and the fight to maintain the looks of their youth seems to be exhausting and deeply unsuccessful.
I, on the other hand, seem to be coming into my own. The charm I had to develop is appreciated. The sense of humour I had to fine hone to cover the hurt of being ignored has blossomed.
Essentially those born beautiful will suffer the pain of not understanding why life is harder as they get older.

thetrumanshow · 20/05/2025 09:13

Renabrook · 20/05/2025 08:46

Can't speak for anyone else but do we have to be both? I meet the basic appropriate normal society rules without all the 'feminine' stuff, i wore a school uniform and now work clothes and appropriate wedding/funeral clothes type thing that is where it ends

of course not, you don't have to be anything you don't want.

It was more on how ironic for some posters to mention the beauty privilege, which is a thing, while at the same time accusing beautiful women to be either unkind, or brainless. As if you couldn't be beautiful and intelligent.

StupidBoy · 20/05/2025 09:13

Your level of physical attractiveness is the very first thing anyone notices about you, unless they've got to know you well via some medium other than sight, first. So if you are plain or ugly, you are at an immediate disadvantage before you get to wow anyone with your personality or wit or humour or kindess or wisdom or intellect. Life is easier for very attractive people, it's true. Pretty Privilege is definitely a thing, but then so is Clever Privilege, Emotional Intelligence Privilege or Confidence Privilege, I guess.

It's true for women and men, but I think it's easier to get by without being judged for your plainness as a man than as a woman. Although plain women often do an awful lot to make themselves appear more attractive than they actually are by the way they present themselves. (Think botox, fillers, make up, eyebrows, high maintenance hair, tooth veneers, high heels, glamorous clothes etc.) whereas men just tend to look like they look, and any obvious attempt at beautifying themselves is more likely to be ridiculed and questioned, whereas with women it never is. In fact it's more likely to be questioned and ridiculed if plain women don't make an effort to improve on what they've got. Look at the hard time given to people like Therese Coffey. How can she go out like that know she's going to be photographed all the time and not give a shit? Not play that game that's expected of her as a woman?

It's easier to start things when you are very attractive. It's easier to find opportunities. Easier to get people's attention. Easier to get people to say yes to what you want. Much much easier if you work in sales or any job where persuasion is important. You still need charm and confidence, but undoubtedly having people enjoy looking at you is an easy way to get their attention in the first place.

It's easier to get the job once you are in the interview, although that does very much depend on the job and your experience/qualifications. If you are up against someone equally well qualified and equally compelling then being very attractive will tip the balance in your favour.

It's easier to make friends and attract partners on a surface level. I'm not sure it's easier to keep them or to be happier and more fulfilled in your relationships and your friendships in the long term though.

We are all drawn to beautiful things. Beautiful art, beautiful scenery, beautiful flowers and nature. And yes, beautiful faces and bodies. If you look at the animal and insect world, think about which creatures we hold in high regard and which ones we are repelled by, or fear, even if they can't actually do us much harm.

Let's say you don't even rate a 3 out of 10 for most people, then yes certain things in life will be harder. But it's the same for people who are not blessed with much intelligence, or academic ability, or good social skills or natural confidence, a sense of humour, or good physical mobility or coordination, or you have a significant disability of some sort. Any of these things are going to hold us back in some way, large or small. The best we can hope for is that we can overcome our physical, mental or personality shortcomings by working on what we do have in our favour. In the case of being rather plain looking, or downright ugly, that's where having a great character or personality or a great sense of humour kicks in and can be your saviour. Those things shine through and eventually captivate people if you are given enough time to win them over. If you don't genuinely have any of those qualities either, then you do have problems.

If you feel ignored it's probably because you lack confidence, rather than because you are unattractive. I know that's a bit of a chicken and egg situation, because being plain and not conventionally attractive (or just being convinced that you are downright ugly) is obviously going to knock your confidence, so it's a difficult one.

Someone beautiful will easily get people's attention and adulation at first, but if they are thick, or boring, or annoyingly insecure or just nasty as fuck they probably won't retain it for very long. People do see past the beauty and want something more. Obviously a person's job is directly related to them being beautiful then they can still do well their job, but everything else in their life might not be as hunky dory as you think, unless there is more about them than just a pretty face.

I work with the public and most people are very, very average looking. An awful lot of people are fairly unattractive or plain looking but very few are genuinely ugly.

ObelixtheGaul · 20/05/2025 09:14

I'm going to challenge the 'you're not making the best of yourself' posters. God, how I grew to hate hearing that.

The problem with that argument is it's all about making you look like somebody else. I went against it all and picked my own style. Sod what colours I 'should' be wearing. My colour palette is dull AF.

As a young girl, I wanted to be seen. I couldn't do it the conventional way. If I did what the pretty people did, it just made it more obvious that I wasn't one of them.

I spent a lot of my teen years desperately waiting to be old enough for plastic surgery. I heard enough, 'you don't make the best of yourself' to fill a dustbin.

Bollocks to that. I found my own 'best' which wasn't exactly loved by the people constantly telling me if I had this haircut, or wore x y z. I did all that. Hated it. It just made me feel so miserable to see that, no, it didn't make me look like the pretty people. It made me look like an ugly bird trying to be what she wasn't.

Now, at 50, I don't give a damn. I am not going to cut my long, unruly frizz-prone hair into a middle-aged bob that I have to straighten every day, despite my father telling me how much 'better' I would look. I won't look 'better' I will look like a plainer version of the 'pretty at 50' brigade who can wear that style without an hour of blowing and straightening.

I've learned to love my wild hair, despite my mother's despair over it in my youth. No, it's not like my sister's ( and how I tired of hearing how lucky she was to have inherited my father's hair type).

Don't try to be what you aren't, OP. Own what you ARE. Comparison is the thief of joy gets said a lot on here, but with looks, it's true.

KimberleyClark · 20/05/2025 09:16

Finallydoingit24 · 20/05/2025 08:37

There’s quite a lot of other pressure on men though - height, body type etc. and while men get called dicks if they express a preference for a certain physical type it’s fine for women to say they’d never date someone under 6 foot.

Absolutely. And hair/balding.

Greywarden · 20/05/2025 09:20

OP, there is loads of great advice on here already so don't have loads to add, but I will just say this: conventional attractiveness and confidence are two different things, and it sounds like you feel low on both. I think you're completely right that those viewed as 'ugly' get treated worse in loads of aspects of life, but for those who know you a little - and particularly friends - it won't be your looks alone that determine what they say to you. It will be your confidence and whether they think they can get away with mocking you and putting you down.

I'm not saying this is somehow your 'fault' because of course anyone whose looks are criticised is going to struggle with confidence. I have been there myself, not to the extent you describe but to a considerable degree (bullying at school; mockery when I tried to wear makeup; sniggering at the idea that anyone could possibly be attracted to me) so I can relate at least somewhat. What I am saying is that in your shoes, I would be:

  • thinking about 'acting' more confident even if I don't feel lit. Wear those fashions you're interested in without consulting your friends - just go and DO it (if you're fairly slim your body is likely to look great in them anyway, even if you're not confident and happy with your face).
  • if you find yourself in any way colluding with the mocking and dismissive comments (for example, laughing along when you are being laughed at; in any way playing up to the 'I know, I'm so ugly and have no chance' vibe', even subconsciously) - try to catch yourself doing this and stop. You could always practice some alternative responses, eg 'Well I like that so I want to try it.' 'Well yes, I do think they're attractive.' 'Does it matter whether I'll fit in there? I think I'd really enjoy it.'
  • if you feel close enough to your friends and trust them - which sounds like it might not be the case from your description, but I don't want to assume - perhaps you could even address this with them directly. 'I know I've sort of laughed along with jokes about my looks in the past, but I've decided to stop. I just want to live my life and wear whatever I want to wear. Just letting you all know so you understand if I start acting a bit differently.' But not something to be so open about if you think it will just provoke nastiness from these people.

It is difficult to truly believe in your value in this looks-obsessed world, but your value does exist and is not dependent on how you look. Life is too short not to do things you want to do, go to events you'd like to go to or dress as you want to dress for fear of the consequences. I wish you loads of luck.

thetrumanshow · 20/05/2025 09:22

I'm going to challenge the 'you're not making the best of yourself' posters. God, how I grew to hate hearing that

not really

It's the answer when people complain they feel unhappy with something or their general appearance. If you are pleased with what you are, you don't have to change or follow any rule.

You are never going to win everyone anyway. You still hear the "women are too old to dress like this". Like what? Unless you wear a babygrow, you are never too old to wear anything. Clothes don't have an expiration date, you just adapt based on your body shape, not your age.

Some women spend their life trying to straighten their hair, when others spent a fortune to put waves and curls in theirs. It's all details. But we are talking about UGLY here, which is different.

TheBig50 · 20/05/2025 09:26

ThatCyanCat · 20/05/2025 08:43

Yes, I don't see what's so controversial here. We get these threads from time to time and there is always, understandably, sadness about the lack of sexual attention. But as I said, ugly people find partners and have happy relationships and families all the time so it really isn't the inevitable tragedy some people come to think it is.

I don't buy into the whole "but nobody is ugly" thing, though. I used to say that sort of thing but then I realised I was actually offending people. They felt I was denying their reality, dismissing it, and essentially making it about me by saying "but aren't I so wonderful, I don't think anyone is ugly" and you know something, they were right. Some people are extremely beautiful and by the law of averages, some people fall right to the other extreme. It doesn't mean they aren't lovely people who deserve and can find love and happiness, but essentially telling them their situation doesn't exist isn't helpful.

I'll have to disagree.

As I said in my post some hours ago - I'm paying lip service to people who think they're ugly. Ugly really is a playground word, a comparison.
If I put you next to Salma Hayek, in your world I'd have to rate you as fucking hideous because not only is she beautiful on the outside, she's intelligent, she's engaging, she's is so funny too, and she's what 60?

Whereas you sound so one dimensional. The way a person looks = attractive.

The amount of sexual attention you get doesn't equate to attractiveness either.
Some women make it their mission to garner as much sexual attention as possible. I put these women in the same self esteem category as those who class themselves as ugly.
If you can only find confidence from the amount of people who want you sexually, then it's a very sad situation.

Do you make people laugh? Do people find you interesting? Do people find you engaging? Would someone actually want to get to know you, to understand you? To spend time with you?
Or do they just want to see your tits?

That's how shallow it is when you think sexual attention equals attractiveness.
If you're happy with a man that thinks similar then good luck, because he's a shallow arsehole too and after giving him a couple of children and your body is out of whack and you've put on a couple of stone and your tits will never be the same again - guess what? He's looking for someone that you used to look like!

That's how life is when you base everything on outside appearance.

These ugly people (who have been so lucky to have met someone who'll have them) are still sharing their life, their interests, their laughs, their loves and their children because their relationship wasn't built on tits, arse, pouts, abs, surgery and emptiness.

I'm not telling anyone their feelings aren't valid. If you feel ugly and low and you're not in a great space... Those feelings are absolutely valid.

That's where self esteem comes in... Personality. Enjoyment. Empowerment. Achievement. Attainment. Joy. Laughter.
Those things are attractive.

But if you want to measure yourself by how many rancid blokes want to shag you then by all means consider yourself the prettier person.

heidyho · 20/05/2025 09:37

Look at Sean Combs (Diddy) currently on trial. He is what I would call ugly. Maybe his personality and actions have swayed this opinion further in my head but if I saw him on a night out I would consider him unnatractive- he's got a gummy smile, he's short and just not physically attractive by any means. There's a rumour that he's not very endowed either. Yet because of his wealth and fame he was surrounded by the most beautiful women. Had he not have been famous he probably would still have been an abuser but his partners would have been in his own league.

ThatCyanCat · 20/05/2025 09:40

TheBig50 · 20/05/2025 09:26

I'll have to disagree.

As I said in my post some hours ago - I'm paying lip service to people who think they're ugly. Ugly really is a playground word, a comparison.
If I put you next to Salma Hayek, in your world I'd have to rate you as fucking hideous because not only is she beautiful on the outside, she's intelligent, she's engaging, she's is so funny too, and she's what 60?

Whereas you sound so one dimensional. The way a person looks = attractive.

The amount of sexual attention you get doesn't equate to attractiveness either.
Some women make it their mission to garner as much sexual attention as possible. I put these women in the same self esteem category as those who class themselves as ugly.
If you can only find confidence from the amount of people who want you sexually, then it's a very sad situation.

Do you make people laugh? Do people find you interesting? Do people find you engaging? Would someone actually want to get to know you, to understand you? To spend time with you?
Or do they just want to see your tits?

That's how shallow it is when you think sexual attention equals attractiveness.
If you're happy with a man that thinks similar then good luck, because he's a shallow arsehole too and after giving him a couple of children and your body is out of whack and you've put on a couple of stone and your tits will never be the same again - guess what? He's looking for someone that you used to look like!

That's how life is when you base everything on outside appearance.

These ugly people (who have been so lucky to have met someone who'll have them) are still sharing their life, their interests, their laughs, their loves and their children because their relationship wasn't built on tits, arse, pouts, abs, surgery and emptiness.

I'm not telling anyone their feelings aren't valid. If you feel ugly and low and you're not in a great space... Those feelings are absolutely valid.

That's where self esteem comes in... Personality. Enjoyment. Empowerment. Achievement. Attainment. Joy. Laughter.
Those things are attractive.

But if you want to measure yourself by how many rancid blokes want to shag you then by all means consider yourself the prettier person.

I'm not bothered by what you think of me. You took one line completely out of context and misquoted it anyway, so I don't have any faith in your judgement. You're still suggesting that I was advocating judging oneself on how many men want to shag you, which is such a gross misrepresentation of what I actually said that I'm not entirely sure you're serious. It is most definitely a case of seeing things as you are, not as they are. The post in question is there in full; people can make up their own minds.

I certainly agree that healthy, loving, lasting relationships are not based on tight arses and big tits. It's a shame you aren't able to actually read what I wrote because I pretty much said that when I noted that if beauty were king, Hollywood would have the best relationships in the world.

But no, I don't believe in telling people that beauty is a thing, and plain/average is a thing, but the other end of the spectrum is all in people's heads. I don't think it's true and I don't think it's respectful to people telling us about life on that end of the spectrum. I would say again, though, however you're going to mangle it, that I see plenty of those people every day with happy lives full of love, so while it isn't a good hand to be dealt, that doesn't mean it can't be played well and it doesn't make a person of any less worth.

ChampionGinge · 20/05/2025 09:40

I do think some of this comes down to confidence. People who aren't conventionally attractive seem more attractive when they are very confident in their own skin, confidence is an attractive quality.
However as someone who wasn't confident and fat and ginger growing up I do also agree OP that it is harder to be seen as 'ugly' or to have ugly qualities whilst you grow up. It either chips away your confidence completely and this making you more unattractive, or it gives you a very thick skin and you find ways to cope and hide the hurt.
I think not being conventionally attractive can give you a much harder start in life.
I really didn't want my children to be ginger, not because of the way I think it looks, but because it makes life harder at school, its something that has to be overcome. I was thankful they have socially acceptable blonde and brown hair.
Your friends sound like they aren't very good friends though OP. Any friends you have should be building you up and giving you confidence. When I started my first job I fell in with a group of women who built me up made me feel popular and forget about the school days. I hope you find some people to build you up too.

thetrumanshow · 20/05/2025 09:43

But if you want to measure yourself by how many rancid blokes want to shag you then by all means consider yourself the prettier person.

which is not even a good tool

Many stunning women will still tell you that they seem to intimidate most men or something, and get completely ignored more than anything else.

MyLoyalEagle · 20/05/2025 09:44

OP, people are good looking in different ways.

TheBig50 · 20/05/2025 09:45

ThatCyanCat · 20/05/2025 09:40

I'm not bothered by what you think of me. You took one line completely out of context and misquoted it anyway, so I don't have any faith in your judgement. You're still suggesting that I was advocating judging oneself on how many men want to shag you, which is such a gross misrepresentation of what I actually said that I'm not entirely sure you're serious. It is most definitely a case of seeing things as you are, not as they are. The post in question is there in full; people can make up their own minds.

I certainly agree that healthy, loving, lasting relationships are not based on tight arses and big tits. It's a shame you aren't able to actually read what I wrote because I pretty much said that when I noted that if beauty were king, Hollywood would have the best relationships in the world.

But no, I don't believe in telling people that beauty is a thing, and plain/average is a thing, but the other end of the spectrum is all in people's heads. I don't think it's true and I don't think it's respectful to people telling us about life on that end of the spectrum. I would say again, though, however you're going to mangle it, that I see plenty of those people every day with happy lives full of love, so while it isn't a good hand to be dealt, that doesn't mean it can't be played well and it doesn't make a person of any less worth.

I've read your post again.

I stand by what I've written.

It reads as immature and shallow.

ThatCyanCat · 20/05/2025 09:46

TheBig50 · 20/05/2025 09:45

I've read your post again.

I stand by what I've written.

It reads as immature and shallow.

And I still have no faith in your judgement. Shrug.

TheBig50 · 20/05/2025 09:50

ThatCyanCat · 20/05/2025 09:40

I'm not bothered by what you think of me. You took one line completely out of context and misquoted it anyway, so I don't have any faith in your judgement. You're still suggesting that I was advocating judging oneself on how many men want to shag you, which is such a gross misrepresentation of what I actually said that I'm not entirely sure you're serious. It is most definitely a case of seeing things as you are, not as they are. The post in question is there in full; people can make up their own minds.

I certainly agree that healthy, loving, lasting relationships are not based on tight arses and big tits. It's a shame you aren't able to actually read what I wrote because I pretty much said that when I noted that if beauty were king, Hollywood would have the best relationships in the world.

But no, I don't believe in telling people that beauty is a thing, and plain/average is a thing, but the other end of the spectrum is all in people's heads. I don't think it's true and I don't think it's respectful to people telling us about life on that end of the spectrum. I would say again, though, however you're going to mangle it, that I see plenty of those people every day with happy lives full of love, so while it isn't a good hand to be dealt, that doesn't mean it can't be played well and it doesn't make a person of any less worth.

That's a completely different outlook from your original post.

ObelixtheGaul · 20/05/2025 09:50

thetrumanshow · 20/05/2025 09:22

I'm going to challenge the 'you're not making the best of yourself' posters. God, how I grew to hate hearing that

not really

It's the answer when people complain they feel unhappy with something or their general appearance. If you are pleased with what you are, you don't have to change or follow any rule.

You are never going to win everyone anyway. You still hear the "women are too old to dress like this". Like what? Unless you wear a babygrow, you are never too old to wear anything. Clothes don't have an expiration date, you just adapt based on your body shape, not your age.

Some women spend their life trying to straighten their hair, when others spent a fortune to put waves and curls in theirs. It's all details. But we are talking about UGLY here, which is different.

I AM ugly, though. I wasn't pleased with what I was. All the people, well meaning though they may be, who tell you how you just need to style your way out of it to make 'the best of yourself' simply reinforce the idea that YOU are not good enough as you are.

Believe me, I've been there. Down that road lies a world of disappointment, when you've tried it all and you still aren't happy.

Nothing short of surgery will change my deviated septum which makes my nose crooked, or the fact that I have an awful square jaw and no discernible cheekbones.

And when all you wanted to do growing up was to act, I can tell you the discovery that you don't have enough talent to get over your looks is hard. Really hard.

I didn't need people telling me if I just wore this, or cut my hair like this it would make me 'better'.

What I am trying to do in my post is to pass on something I could have done with hearing instead of the years of people politely agreeing that yes, I am a munter, but have I tried X y z?

ThatCyanCat · 20/05/2025 09:55

TheBig50 · 20/05/2025 09:50

That's a completely different outlook from your original post.

No it isn't, but you're determined not to see it because you're intent on attacking me for things I haven't said. You take lines out of context, misquote them and then just make stuff up.

Attempting a discussion with someone who does that is worse than pointless. I'll be charitable and assume that as this is an emotive topic, it can be hard for people not to read stuff about it with their own filters on. You can think what you like.

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 20/05/2025 10:07

Those who say 'ah, but if you're ugly you can get plastic surgery'... not unless you want a complete (expensive, because not medically necessary) rebuild. To make me attractive I'd need to get surgery on my eyes to make them bigger, get my nose straightened and made smaller, have some kind of bone grafts and major rebuild work on my jaw to - well, to give me a jaw basically as my face just slopes into my neck; I'd need extreme dental work too (as a result of the jaw rebuild but also because my teeth are awful and would need a full set of implants). So it's not just a quick facelift and away, some of us genuinely are not even blessed with the raw material. A quick make up lesson and confidence is not going to fool anyone.

CreationNat1on · 20/05/2025 10:08

We can do a lot to take advantage of the beauty privilege by being :

Healthy,
Well groomed,
Pleasant,
Mannerly,
Respectful, fun, and
Emotionally regulated.

People tend to be attracted to symmetrical faces and healthy bodies. Quiet confidence is elegant.

thetrumanshow · 20/05/2025 10:10

I AM ugly, though. I wasn't pleased with what I was.

how do you want me to comment? You THINK you are ugly, but I have no idea what you look like, so I can't possibly judge.

I know I have never seen an ugly person, someone making me "oh no".

I have seen people who had a problem with their nose for example, and had surgery to fix it - and while I can understand and it's their face, I thought it actually ruined it, removing all the personality and their old nose suited their face so much better.
In itself, a crooked nose doesn't make someone "ugly". You can be beautiful with a crooked nose. I know it's only a detail, and it's about your general appearance

but most people have issues with at least one part of their body/ face, even stunning people, nothing to do with being ugly.

WhereIsMyJumper · 20/05/2025 10:13

Charisma is so much more important than looks

thetrumanshow · 20/05/2025 10:15

Actually, thinking about it, I have seen people who I thought "what the heck"
It's people who had gone overboard on plastic surgery, and it makes me (and others) wince thinking "what have they done to their poor face".

I have never found Joan Rivers ugly, she thought she was, she famously said it repeatedly. Towards the end of her life, she wasn't remotely trying to have a natural face, but at her age, who says natural alternative would have been better.
She wasn't ugly, but a bit over-worked maybe, for my taste.

Oldglasses · 20/05/2025 10:15

GildedRage · 20/05/2025 04:10

i've yet to meet a person who is ugly physically.
i see people who could benefit from a hair cut, dental work, working with a dermatologist or even just buying nicer clothing but they are not ugly, they could look more conventionally pretty if they did xyz but everyone has potential to be pretty.

That's a lot of BS if ever I heard it!

TheBig50 · 20/05/2025 10:15

I love the word minter! Ffs. Munter! I've not heard that for years.

MuntersRUs.

I remember when a friend started doing Avon years ago, she had all these testers, she needed some sales - all of a sudden it was Big50 why do you never make the best of yourself?
Let me make you over.

I felt looking in the mirror that I'd been attacked by a 3 year old with red! Aunt Sally cheeks (if you remember her) bright red lips. Brown eyeshadow ( just to bring out the Night of The Living Dead) all finished off with a glitter highlighter all over.

She didn't make a sale 🤣

I might have been able to pull it off in a dank basement full of skagheads, but I decided to cleanse before we did the school run.

I did bleach my hair in lock down as I'd always wondered what blonde would be like.

Yeah. My then teenage daughter told me it didn't suit my red freckly face (Irish skin!).
That was that!

I just shave my head now (well grade 8)I had dreadlocks many moons ago. I think I rebel against the norm.