To ask my brother to visit us from abroad and refuse to meet in London

[JIMER202]

I live in Australia and haven’t been home since 2022.

I’m planning a trip back to the UK next year and my children will be 6 and 2 by then. My youngest was born out here and so it will be his first time meeting most of my family (including my brother). My eldest was a toddler when we moved and so it will basically be his first time meeting anyone too.

My family live rurally and so my children and I will be flying Australia-London and then driving another 3-4 hours to my hometown. We have an 8hr drive to the Airport on the Aus side too, so it is a lot of travel and jet lag is going to be an issue also.

We are coming for 10 days which sounds bonkers as it’s such a long way to come, but my partner is able to come for 10 days or I fly alone with both children. My grandad has had strokes and it’s likely this will sadly be one of the last times we see him (hopefully not the last but I am bracing myself it may be).

As this trip is such a big deal and costing so much £££ already, we are actually going to be staying in a holiday cottage with my parents and grandparents, so they can really spend as much time with my children as possible and to limit the driving to see different people. Anyone that has lived away from your hometown and gone back to visit will know that everyone usually ends up saying oh come meet me here, come over to ours etc and we are trying to keep that to a minimum.

My brother also lives abroad (a 2hr flight away) and has no children. He flies back to the UK and then drives to our hometown 2-3 times a year. He will often drive all the way to our hometown and then all the way to see some of his wife’s family who are 2 hours away from there in a single weekend, which is of course a lot of travelling.

Here is my AIBU. We told my brother of the plan for the big family accommodation and that as we are paying he won’t have to pay anything, the place has enough space for him and his wife (a bedroom if they would like to stay) and he said to me why can’t I just fly to London and meet you there? Why can’t I just see you and the kids in central London? (He was suggesting meeting on a weekend before we fly back)

My husband has said it’s my family and up to me but he would prefer to not take them in to Central London on tubes etc at the ages they are and they are so young they aren’t interested in seeing Central London, they really just want to see the grandparents. I agree.

My brother has said he has no interest in coming to the holiday let. I sent him a message to let him know that as we are paying for the holiday let to minimize extra travel as my children would already have done so much and likely be jet lagged and due to their ages we won’t be doing central London. He has now asked if we can meet at Heathrow, but I can’t think of what we would do there? He made it clear he does want to see us and our children but ‘I don’t want to travel all the way back home again.’ I think he’s being rigid and I can’t understand why he’s willing to do it at other times and to see his wife’s family which is way more traveling then we are asking him to do. I mentioned he doesn’t have children as I don’t think he’s quite grasping that taking my children for several hours on the train to central London for basically a lunch is far from appealing. We get on well so I don’t understand why it feels like he’s holding this boundary with us over London or nothing when they travel to our hometown at other times?! It’s like they have agreed to stop doing it all the time but I don’t understand why they can’t make an exception for us. They are doing their same trip home twice before we even fly there next year!

Oh I'm glad you've seen it from the other side and spoken with him. It's really hard to do that when your lives are so different. Of course you want a quiet cottage - you've got two little children to think of!

so much this - so many people have zero interest in having kids, sometimes I think parents can’t quite get their head around this. It’s not always that child free people want kids but can’t have them, loads of folk just don’t want them at all.

I dont get the timeline of what was agreed when.

Was this agreed last year, with a years notice and now brother is saying he doesnt fancy the holiday cottage bit but is still wanting to fly to the UK to meet OP

or is it being planned now, with a years notice and at the original suggestion he said he wanted to do the holiday bit but now has confirmed, with a years notice, that he doesnt want to do that bit?

In any case either way, I agree with other posters that he has probably, reasonably had second doubts about being with kids for a week in a holiday cottage in gthe middle of nowhere.

You're changing your plans by a few hours arent you?

Despite a previous post where you said that you wouldnt be at Heathrow until the day of departure, you later confirmed you would be staying the night before (obviously). So you'll just need to get to Heathrow a few hours earlier to meet him.

How does that equate to 'tons on bending on our part'

I live abroad and “going home” is always really tough. You almost never win, there will be always someone you couldn’t get to. So I empathise with OP on trying to make things work and being frustrated.

All I’m going to add, OP, is that the Premier Inn on Bath Rd (close to T2/3) has a massive lobby area with a Costa, a bar, a sit down restaurant. Staying somewhere like that, esp if your brother stays overnight as well, means your DC would have a bit more freedom to run around. If I was trying to organise a quick visit with a sibling and young DC that’s where I would pick to stay.

@JIMER202 I think you are getting loads of awful replies on here.

With everything that you have said about your relationship with your DB and how you haven't been able to meet, it does seem weird that he wants to meet at Heathrow.

I would encourage you to have a chat with him to know what's going on. They'll be something up in his life or he has the emotional intelligence of an amoeba - in which case tell him to come to the holiday let.

If midway is Oxford, then I think you're probably near enough London to leave the 2 year old with granny, and meet your brother at the Natural History Museum with the six year old. The two year old will get spoiled, and the six year old will have a blast. Everyone's a winner. My DC loves a train ride to a museum, especially if they get a copy of The Metro and a babycinno, like a proper commuter, for the journey.

Spoke today and it’s just that he wants to meet at London Heathrow because he thinks we will already be there.

The big issue now is that there’s only one flight per day. So we wouldn’t be able to do the Hobbledown Heath plan unless he flies in the night before, stays a night in a hotel, and then we drive up in the morning to spend the day. The one flight back out however is EARLY before 9am and so he would then miss that flight and need to have another night at Heathrow! It’s a logistical nightmare, not even accounting for the different terminals. For anyone saying why can’t we just go up a night early, because we have already paid for the 7 night let and are hoping to see friends/family. Spending 2 nights at Heathrow and paying for accommodation twice isn’t something I am willing to budge on.

I’ve seen a lot of people say 10 days but when I wrote down our full travel plans and itinerary it’s actually 7 nights in the holiday let because we are flying in and then staying at Heathrow, driving to the holiday let the next day, spending 7 nights and then driving back to Heathrow as the flight is the next day early. So that makes 10 days technically in the UK but 2 nights will be at Heathrow and one of those days we fly out early so it’s basically not a day. We then have our long flights either side and then hotels/travel either side at the other end as it’s 8hrs drive to/from the airport in Australia. Hope that all make sense! That’s how we get to 2 weeks leave.

So we land mid morning, by the time we do immigration (and my husband isn’t British and my children don’t have UK passports so we will be in different lines, not sure how that will quite work) it will be early afternoon UK time and then we have to go collect our hire car and get to our hotel so it will be about time for hotel check in at 4pm that day. The next day the plan was to drive to the holiday let which we can get in from 10am. I’ve asked my brother if we could meet the evening we land, hoping my children won’t be too hideously jet lagged as this is the only time that roughly coincides with his restricted flights in and out. By the time he lands and is done with check in we are looking at about 6-7pm. He would then spend the night at a hotel and fly back the next day.

The other option is we drive to Heathrow from
the holiday let and meet him for dinner that night. This would be my preferred option. Again he would get to us at best around 6-7pm.

So it looks like the options are going to be either meeting the evening of the day we land or the evening before we fly out. And he will have to spend a night at Heathrow due to his restricted flight times. Given him all the info and left the ball in his court. He’s going to think about he said and I’m
going to leave it well alone for now. Our holiday let and flights are booked, anything else people can sort out closer to the time I guess. My AIBU was over asking him to come to us.

My brother has never met my 2 year old so I’d feel a bit odd not bringing him too. Getting to central London would be several hours there and back. My brother again is also trying to fly to and from Heathrow and we both didn’t realise how restrictive the times would be for him! It’s land in London in afternoon and then fly back in the morning, only one flight option each day. They typically fly to Gatwick and suggested that so I’ve left the ball in their court to look at those flight options.

So helpful thank you!!

If anyone knows of lovely hotels near Heathrow with good food I’m all ears! Trying to give them as many options as possible now. It will be taxis to the airport if we stay on the way back and so hopefully nothing too far. Thank you everyone who gets it and has posted helpful places to see! We may take the children to hobbledown Heath ourselves on our last day in England as it looks a lovely place!

Now we have looked at flight times central London won’t even work as my brothers one flight in of the day would be getting him out the airport for 6-7pm. He’s going to check Gatwick for flights also. If we went from Heathrow on the train to meet somewhere in the middle any suggestions?

it is feeling like a real logisticial nightmare trying to plan it around our flights in and out and his rigid flight times

We can’t get to Heathrow earlier anyway as the one flight from his country will mean he won’t be out the airport until 6-7pm unfortunately. They usually fly to Gatwick so didn’t realise there is only one flight a day.

In your position I would be staying at Thorpe Park (20 mins from the airport) and treat my dc to an afternoon of rides. After a long week staying with the family, this might be a fun way to end your holiday.

Your brother can join you there for dinner at the hotel which will far more relaxed than an airport hotel - but still extremely close and convenient. I’d probably keep it as a surprise for the dc.

The rooms have just been renovated, and it adds a different dimension to your stay. If your brothers flight is cancelled or delayed it won’t matter as much, as you will be occupied and having a lovely time. There are plenty of inexpensive hotels nearby if you or db wish to stay - or you can stay on site.

https://www.thorpepark.com/short-breaks/

I would also leave it to db to work out his own logistics, given he has made the decision not to stay at the holiday let, the onus is on him to make the alternative arrangements. I’d step back from that quietly and leave it with him.

He cannot seriously be suggesting he flies into Gatwick and you go there from Heathrow to meet him or have I misread that?!

You are well within your rights to say no to your brother, but I had to laugh at you repeating the line that "the children are too young for London". There are hundreds or thousands of small children living in London. Mine have been going to central London on a regular basis since they were tiny babies.
There's a huge amount of enjoyable things to do in London, your brother doesn't insist on "central central" London and he would be happy with meeting closer to the airport. I'd pick South Ken myself and make it an enjoyable day out, but lots of spots close to the airport.

Overall, it's completely fine to say you don't want to meet in London for one reason or another, but refusing to do so because the children are too young WILL get raised eyebrows.

We live abroad and have travelled 2-3 times a year since having kids (eldest is 5, younger one is 2) to visit our respective families in the UK and the US and every single time someone gets sick, usually with a stomach bug that then does the rounds. I wouldn't be planning anything too ambitious that can't be rearranged because the chances of having to change plans last minute are pretty high!

Do what you can manage, Op.
If you see Bro and SIL all good but if not, organise your next holiday in three years to be two weeks in Hawaii, Mexico, Fiji (or similar) with your Bro.

Think your brother isn t aware of difficulties of travelling with young children. You re understanably disinclined meet up in the busy city for a day ( even more so the airport), when you ve offered a good alternative ,that's your perogative and for good reason.
There s perhaps another underlying reason why you re brother appears to be stubborn around this.
He IBU.
I agree with comment earlier regarding talking rather than texting / messaging.
Better have a frank discussion over facetime.
He doesn t have any kids ,so he s just not thinking about all the inconvenience of you doing the travelling ,esp with a 2 year old.
Facetime him; be honest with him.If he still feels he doesn t want to come visit/ stay at the holiday accom ( even for 1 overnight) then so be it.
If he doesn t understand then so be it .Tell him it s unfortunate he won t be able to spend quality time with you and the kids.
His choice.
Maybe one day ,once he has kids of his own ,he ll understand .
You mentioned he travels a lot .
This shouldn't t be an issue for him at all.Perhaps influenced by his own partner???
Also as both of you now live abroad; wouldn t it be lovely for your own parents to spend qaulity time with both of you together for a short time ?
Defo something else going on .

There are good buses between Gatwick and Heathrow. Takes about an hour. He could fly to Gatwick and then get the bus over to Heathrow.

Looking at your logistics, I can see you are a bit of a worrier and perhaps not regular fliers (understandable with two young children and recent health problems). You've said that the balls in his court, but still seem to be worrying about his logistics.

You're planning a year out because you have to. He might plan closer to the time because he can. Don't let this affect you. Find your nice hotel near Heathrow and book the two nights you need. Tell him the dates and crack on with organising anything else about the rest of the trip. Let him organise his life.

Update- Brother travelled from Spain to our hometown with his wife last weekend to see both families and mentioned it was planning around seeing their nephew for his birthday.

There are no flights that work on our airport days so that plan is out. Next plan suggested was meeting in Oxford as it’s a train ride from the airport as some of you suggested and then a drive for us in our hire car. We have suggested a day and flight times that will work, still not heard back!

I’ve been clear that I am disappointed that a lot of effort was made to go back and see SILs family (they booked hotels and rented a car) and it feels like we are having to compromise when my young children have already travelled significantly to get back to the UK and he hasn’t even met my youngest.

There is no way I wouldn’t just travel to meet my brother if the roles were reversed. In fact we always collect from the airport and have people stay in our home when they visit us. My brother has never made the visit to Aus.

For now I’ve decided to just leave it up to them. But I feel better for saying directly that I am disappointed.

...and a 6 year old has plenty to do in London.

Like what? If the adults are getting together to talk and reminisce, it's not going to help to have a six-year-old there in Central London. And if they're doing something to amuse the six-year-old (zoo? M&M Store?) they're not really going to be concentrating on each other. And whatever you do, the kid's going to be fractious within a couple of hours.

I think the OP's right. Much better to meet up at the cottage, where the kid can be looked at, chatted to, fed, put down for a nap, plonked in front of the telly.

We are already traveling a long way and have booked expensive accommodation to be in the countryside with our family. Not wanting to go to London with my young children who don’t enjoy busy places doesn’t make me unusual.
I don’t like London personally.

So many people are finding it unusual I don’t think my children that live in the countryside with hardly any people won’t enjoy London. They don’t really enjoy big cities we have gone to here and central London with young children wouldn’t be enjoyable for me. My eldest is neurodiverse and would easily be lost unless we watched like a hawk. I used to work in London and sure if we lived in the UK again would probably go for day trips, but we booked a lovely cottage in the countryside for a reason. Glad you understand!!

The issue we are running in to is fitting everyone into our plans. I have other people I’d like to see but tried to give him first dibs on the days and times that would work for him. I’ve found a day with suitable flights to meet in Oxford and if that compromise won’t work we won’t be able to see him. I will travel back to the UK again as my grandparents health is declining and I will come back should they get even more unwell again, but we won’t have our children travel for another few years due to the cost and from next year won’t be able to take my eldest in term time as her school are stricter the older they get (fair enough) and so the costs will triple to go in school holidays. This is a once in 5 year trip for all
of us. I’m sure I could see my brother next time so am trying to not be too bothered now. I feel better for having said my piece to him.