To ask my brother to visit us from abroad and refuse to meet in London

[JIMER202]

I live in Australia and haven’t been home since 2022.

I’m planning a trip back to the UK next year and my children will be 6 and 2 by then. My youngest was born out here and so it will be his first time meeting most of my family (including my brother). My eldest was a toddler when we moved and so it will basically be his first time meeting anyone too.

My family live rurally and so my children and I will be flying Australia-London and then driving another 3-4 hours to my hometown. We have an 8hr drive to the Airport on the Aus side too, so it is a lot of travel and jet lag is going to be an issue also.

We are coming for 10 days which sounds bonkers as it’s such a long way to come, but my partner is able to come for 10 days or I fly alone with both children. My grandad has had strokes and it’s likely this will sadly be one of the last times we see him (hopefully not the last but I am bracing myself it may be).

As this trip is such a big deal and costing so much £££ already, we are actually going to be staying in a holiday cottage with my parents and grandparents, so they can really spend as much time with my children as possible and to limit the driving to see different people. Anyone that has lived away from your hometown and gone back to visit will know that everyone usually ends up saying oh come meet me here, come over to ours etc and we are trying to keep that to a minimum.

My brother also lives abroad (a 2hr flight away) and has no children. He flies back to the UK and then drives to our hometown 2-3 times a year. He will often drive all the way to our hometown and then all the way to see some of his wife’s family who are 2 hours away from there in a single weekend, which is of course a lot of travelling.

Here is my AIBU. We told my brother of the plan for the big family accommodation and that as we are paying he won’t have to pay anything, the place has enough space for him and his wife (a bedroom if they would like to stay) and he said to me why can’t I just fly to London and meet you there? Why can’t I just see you and the kids in central London? (He was suggesting meeting on a weekend before we fly back)

My husband has said it’s my family and up to me but he would prefer to not take them in to Central London on tubes etc at the ages they are and they are so young they aren’t interested in seeing Central London, they really just want to see the grandparents. I agree.

My brother has said he has no interest in coming to the holiday let. I sent him a message to let him know that as we are paying for the holiday let to minimize extra travel as my children would already have done so much and likely be jet lagged and due to their ages we won’t be doing central London. He has now asked if we can meet at Heathrow, but I can’t think of what we would do there? He made it clear he does want to see us and our children but ‘I don’t want to travel all the way back home again.’ I think he’s being rigid and I can’t understand why he’s willing to do it at other times and to see his wife’s family which is way more traveling then we are asking him to do. I mentioned he doesn’t have children as I don’t think he’s quite grasping that taking my children for several hours on the train to central London for basically a lunch is far from appealing. We get on well so I don’t understand why it feels like he’s holding this boundary with us over London or nothing when they travel to our hometown at other times?! It’s like they have agreed to stop doing it all the time but I don’t understand why they can’t make an exception for us. They are doing their same trip home twice before we even fly there next year!

Which is a reasonable consideration - OP said the travelling time either side of the stay would mean the child being out of school for two weeks during term time. Had she done that she’d have been jumped on here for it. And if you actually read OP’s posts she consulted everyone involved to make sure they were happy with the dates, and everyone got a years’ notice. It’s only now that DB has decided he doesn’t want to stay with family and wants to fly straight in to the UK see OP at the airport and then fly straight out again. So she’s having to accommodate him and change her plans accordingly. I don’t understand why she’s seen as the unreasonable one.

And she’s not suggesting that. That’s your own interpretation because you haven’t bothered to read the thread before commenting.

Lots of keyboard warriors out for this thread aren’t there ? One of the nastier threads I’ve read in a while. MN clearly hates emigrants - right up there with step parents.

@JIMER202 It sounds as though your brother is expecting to see you in the daytime at Heathrow?

His wife will presumably be keeping office hours and depending on how close they live to their airport at home and how long security will take in both airports then they may not be wanting to take a "late" flight out?

Realistically how much time will you get with your brother by meeting him at 4pm in Heathrow before they take a 2 hour flight home?

Not hard to keep up at all. Just read the updates. She didn’t mention her accident or disability because it wasn’t relevant until a poster asked why she hasn’t visited more often and why she isn’t planning to again for another year. OP also said that the visit was probably the last time she would see her grandfather because he’s in ill health, so having to leave a day early is taking away from that too. And where did OP say she was forced to move to Australia ? She said her DH didn’t want to relocate to the UK and she made the decision to stay because she loves him, he’s a good, committed dad and and she wants their children to be with their father. The alternative is leaving for the UK alone and quite possibly having to leave her kids behind in Oz. So a choice made from free will.

Of course it is, never said it wasn’t.

again, I’ll point out the first post from OP said he’d meet them in london.

She’s not just coming to see him, he’s part of it, she can’t agree a date with him.

That’s life.

Expecting an ailing relative to be in the same health and ability in a years time, is extremely foolhardy.

I think OP needs to also consider that with her plans.

But she did agree a date with him - a year ago. If he didn’t want to stay with family in the holiday let, he’s had a year to say that and make alternative arrangements. He’s the one now changing his plans for his convenience and expecting OP to fall in with them.

After this get together OP won’t be able to come back to the UK for at least a year because of major surgery. She acknowledges that her ailing grandfather may not be here by then, so is prioritising that on this trip. So not sure what point you’re making.

OP is aware of that but she has posted in her updates that she has another major surgery upcoming, so next year is when she will be fit enough to make the journey.

I hate the idea of staying in a big group in a holiday cottage, especially where other peoples kids will be! And I have kids! Maybe that’s it? I think generally speaking people see those who’ve emigrated as making their own beds and just suffer the consequences. I disagree, but then I’ve had similar issues with family and we only moved 4 hours away from our hometown in the UK. We’re the bad guys who were bold enough to leave our hometown though, so must be punished for it! 🤣

Well when people aren’t listening sometimes you have to shout.

Yes lots of updates….

The trip isn't until next year. Stuff happens, things change. This is the reality of trying to plan things so far in advance, so inflexibly with so many people. We're talking about at least 4 households, living in 3 different countries - it's hardly surprising they're struggling to all get together in one relatively short window.

Agree - lots of posters ‘blaming’ OP for emigrating and twisting things to suggest that she’s expecting people to dance to her tune, after she’s gone out of her way to check convenient dates and organise things. But DB had a years’ notice so if he didn’t want to stay in the holiday let why hasn’t he said so before now. I get the impression that he just wants to fly in, see OP and fly straight out again.

OP I haven’t read the whole thread but I get it. We are expats from the US with 2 kids and planning a trip back this summer has been painful. Our families don’t live near each other or in central places and I’m tired just looking at our itinerary. We are doing almost entirely what everyone is asking of us but need DH’s sister to be a little flexible and come to their parents and it’s too much of an ask apparently.

OP, I agree with the posters suggesting counselling. You have been through a lot, and have sacrificed a lot, and it would be really helpful to process that.

I also think you having counselling would benefit your kids. I don’t say that to make you feel guilty, I say it as a positive thing you could do for them.

My parents are English and moved to NZ when I was one. My mum struggled hugely with being away from her family and the UK in general, and her sadness and longing seeped into our family life, despite her thinking she was hiding it. I felt conflicted and caught between two cultures- I think she struggled with the idea that her kids were kiwis and I found that confusing (not sure what else we would be!).

I also think you need a clear plan with your husband. The longer you are away, the harder it gets to go back. My parents initially agreed three years but my dad loved it and just kept kicking the can down the road- they are still here 43 years later. Mum really settled at the 20 year mark but she carried a lot of resentment and it was far from ideal for everyone

but you can drop bags earlier, you can drop the car when you want (roughly) so you can see him the day before? why is this such a problem?

What a weird thread. No wonder op is getting defensive. People are piling on, making up scenarios, she's stressed and this is her real life. We don't always react perfectly. Sure, some of the feedback is valid but the tone and empathy level is...hmm.

It sounds like your brother wants to see you, but not enough to inconvenience himself more than he is already doing. There propoaly isn't a miracle tubal litigation baby or incredibly sometimes childfree people are childfree by choice and none of this has absolutely nothing to do with childre. You just need to decide what are your own boundaries. You're already agreeing to see him at Heathrow so agreeing to his terms. If he changes them, then you might have to accept you won't see him. Good luck with your trip, enjoy time with grandparents and parents, good luck with upcoming surgery x

I'm wondering if your brother is literally coming over to meet up with you. I mean not actually staying for a few days but flying in one day, home the next kind of thing. Another post has suggested perhaps you guys could meet up outside of Heathrow, which would be nicer than the airport or going into central London. If you can please have a chat with him - e-mails and texts are not the same. I hope you get something sorted, and there is no falling out.

I've read the whole thread. The quoted post is closest to what is going on here - brother is not a keen driver, and now his wife isn't doing it, he's thought 'well it's really about seeing OP and her kids, I don't need to do the drive as I see the others loads'. Not meant personally, he's thinking of his own limitations and preferences, as of course are you.

As my username shows, I've navigated through multi group family meet up arrangements from opposite sides of the globe. I would say that they require a lot of work and good will and while that's worth it, it does mean you feel the strain, and no one gets exactly what they want. But maybe, as the Rolling Stones put it, you might find you get what you need. Saying a last goodbye to your grandad, over 10 days really, will be tough and emotional. Perhaps a good final day for you and the kids will be a change of scene, run around for them at the play place someone recommended, and a fun late dinner with their uncle (I'd let them stay up late to encourage them to sleep more next day on the plane..) Heathrow does seem the best compromise and that's really how these things have to work. Hope it all goes well and doesn't totally drain you!

I can shout too - PERHAPS THEY DON'T OVERSHARE THEIR FAMILY CIRCUMSTANCES WITH PEOPLE WHOSE BUSINESS IT ISN'T??? It is entirely possible they don't want children. It is also entirely possible that that is the public version of their private sadness, and they would prefer not to have Great Aunt Mary doing her 1000th version of "Your sister has lovely children, when will it be your turn" or "A career is all very well, but it's cold comfort in your old age - look at your sister..."

And no, I haven't seen the multiple times that you've said you are changing plans for him. Because you aren't. You made plans that didn't suit him, you want to see him, you would prefer that he falls in with your plans but you will change things if you must, but you'd like to make it clear to him how very inconvenient that is and make sure he knows that you are hurt he doesn't do as he's told by you.

Completely agree London won't work. A 6 year old will tire pretty quickly. And 2 year old on tubes sounds a nightmare. Honestly my friends son is an angel but even he had his tantrums- throw jet lag into the mix. I wouldn't even want to do Heathrow to be honest.

Is it not wanting to stay in the holiday let as can be a bit full on if they don't have kids? Because they could get their own place to stay. I would try some gentle cajoling often done better on the phone as nuance gets lost in text.

If not then have a think if you can go alone to meet at HR.

Putting myself in sil’s and db’s shoes this actually sounds like the family vacation from hell.

They are not into children hence their choice not to have any, staying with someone else’s toddlers is really NOT fun for anyone, even those of us that actually like children. In op’s words her gps are very trying and cantankerous given their age and health issues.

Then you have op whom herself is no shrinking violet, and has plenty of shouty expectations. Jet lag. A poorly grandparent. It’s a recipe for disaster, and db is doing the right thing. I hope he doesn’t buckle.

In conclusion, I agree with db’s decision, it is wise and thoughtful, and it’s very likely the Heathrow plan will be more successful.

Long and short of it .
OP = 2 x children lots of travel before and after flight .
Time difference = jet lag ( with young children )
Brother = same time zone ( no jet lag )
Very little travel in comparison with OP
NO CHILDREN !
Do the maths people ,rather than the usual mumsnet thing of trying to prove OP wrong with your unhelpful opinions that have been given zero thought..
I am sure OP would have loved to be here for a month or so to accomodate brothers requests and have quality time spent with him rather than a rushed visit !
OP , I hope all works out well and enjoy quality time with your family when you travel 😊