To have reprimanded two adult volunteers for continuous talking ?

[WitheringHeights8]

For context, I run a local brownie unit, and was trying to get the girls to listen (which, to their credit, most of them did) while to of our adult volunteers continued to chat away loudly to themselves.

I told them assertively to stop talking as I was explaining something. They stopped sheepishly, then irritatingingly continued to chat slightly more quietly. I left it as I didn't want to create any sort of scene, but at the end of the night once the girls had left, made a point of telling them how difficult they'd made it for me when I was trying to set an example to the girls.

One of them retorted "We are adults though, not girls", which I just wryly smiled at and essentially ignored.

I'm actually really upset at thr disrespect and immaturity of the response (as I see it). Yes, they are volunteers, we all are, but when I'm trying to run unit they are not above basic respect for others.

I hope I make it very clearly every week how much I appreciate their help, but this has irked me.

Maybe it was unreasonable, but they do it every week and it was very distracting.

People just about “like” being patronized and dictated to like School Kids when they’re getting paid far less when they’re not.

I take it you are also a volunteer, it's very rude of them to behave like that, and also answer back childishly, when you are giving your time to lead a group. Are they parents of any of the girls? If you have any meetings without the children, perhaps you could tactfully bring it up without the children present.

I’m not judging your character. I’m expressing a view of your behaviour - which you invited.

The fact that the OP has chosen to use the word "reprimand" speaks volumes to be honest. And the response from the volunteers (that they are adults, not children) reflects how they felt about the OP's approach.

Perhaps instead of "assertively telling them to stop talking", which sounds like the kind of approach that you would take when dealing with a naughty child, the OP could have asked them if they would mind pausing their conversation for a moment or if they could perhaps move to another part of the room while she talked to the girls. The OP said that they responded sheepishly, which suggests that her approach had embarrassed them.

And yes, of course they were rude and shouldn't have needed to be told, but the fact is, she needs them to carry on volunteering, so careful management is required. And "assertively telling them to stop talking" probably isn't going to make them inclined to keep coming.

"One of them retorted "We are adults though, not girls", which I just wryly smiled at and essentially ignored."

This would really annoy me - particularly as the 'hands up, be quite' and generally be quiet whilst things are being explained aren't just applicable for the girls, but for all adults too - we expect parents to follow them when they're visiting too!

It happens to everyone at some point that one leader is explaining stuff, and the others end up talking - especially where they're prepping the next activity, or dividing up resources etc. Part of being a leader is accepting that you need to shut up too whilst everyone else is quiet and listening to instructions, and either apologising, or making a joke out of it when you inevitably get told off!
Any leader who's been to a big event will tell you that the reason we use these symbols and have those traditions is that they work so well at big events - but not if all the adults ignore them!

YANBU

They need to be setting an example. I'd be cross. Brownies is fun but it's also about learning respect and values.
They need to realise volunteering is more than just being there and helping tidy up.

Do you not find it rude to talk over people?

Well OP, the situation is resolved for the time being. That's good.

Honest advice, though? Maybe work a bit on your communication/people management skills so that you don't inadvertently come across as rude, as you may find yourself without volunteers at all if you don't.

I know that you think you were just being assertive in response to their very rude behaviour, but it would appear that your actions have been perceived by them in a very different way from what you intended. You will find that you usually get the best out of people by handling situations in a more diplomatic, less confrontational manner.

FFS it's not hard not to talk over someone else.

All those wailing about letting the volunteers do what they want just so they turn up again - OP is also a volunteer. Keeping control of a group of excitable girls after school is no mean feat. It takes a lot of energy and tight organisation.

I’ve seen the term “answering back” banded around this thread a few times. “Answering back” is something a child does to a parent/teacher or a junior member of staff does to their manager I.e there is some implicit power imbalance whereby the person should be accepting the reprimand without retort.

What happened here was the OP decided to reprimand the other volunteer for a second time and the lady responded in kind. If you are going to speak to another adult in an “assertive” way on more than one occasion you should anticipate that they may respond in a way that you don’t appreciate. You don’t then become the victim. You are just two adults having a tense conversation.

I find it slightly bonkers that OP then raised this for a third time on a group chat. Of course they are going to quit. You are pestering them at that point going over and over the same thing and attempting to humiliate them. Why would they want to give up their time to support someone like that?

OP says she has been the victim of workplace bullying in the past and I suspect that actually, she is just someone with quite challenging behaviours and a lack of self awareness for how she makes other people feel. When they are snarky in response she victimises herself.

I'm glad she's quit; you're better off without her. Her comment about them being adults, not girls, just doesn't make sense, either; you didn't say they were girls, your point was that the adults needed to set an example to the girls.

I think asking adults to stop talking among themselves when you're trying to address a group is perfectly reasonable, volunteer or not, and I think those on here who are defending them or saying you were out of order are probably the type who'd think it was fine to do what these two women were doing.

To Legomania: when TAs chat to each other while I am talking to the whole class, I say, 'I'm giving important information to keep everyone safe and so everyone knows what they have to do. I need everyone to be quiet while I'm doing this.' It's not my personal preference. I need to be heard when I'm doing my job. Some of the previous posters sound as if they expect me to be 'all apologetic' and ask if I can 'borrow them for a sec' or ask them to 'do me a favour and only talk quietly' but I disagree and so do my SLT. My job is to impart specific information and instructions to the class, including safety information. If I allow people to talk over this, I am not doing my professional job. If the TAs are talking about their role, I still need them to stop because they are preventing the very thing they are there to do i.e. support the progress of the lesson. If they are just having a natter, this is extremely unprofessional of them and cannot be defended, however 'adult' they are. When people are clearly in the wrong, it's not up to others to treat them as if they are in the right. Look at it another way, would the TA role or the volunteer role job description say, 'You are welcome to chat about personal matters whenever you please and whatever the teacher/Leader is saying, even if this makes it difficult for the teacher/Leader to be heard'? It wouldn't, would it?

I also volunteer for a brownie unit OP, and we have this problem with our young helpers! Although tbf they are 13/14, not adults. I wouldn’t expect grown adults to continue loudly chatting!

Gosh your comprehension skills are poor. Did you not just read that I said they were rude?

@sunstreaming

Re the TAs - makes sense. It isn't a dynamic I would enjoy at work but then it wouldn't be necessary there as you can hear a pin drop when one person is presenting. That is what I would expect in a professional environment.

The difference between work and volunteering is a pretty big one in terms of the 'manager' - 'employee' dynamic though

ETA sorry didn't mean to quote the whole post

Their behaviour is poor but you didn’t deal with it well. You have no right to reprimand them especially in front of the girls. You could have told them politely that it was hard to run your session with them talking so could they please be quiet or move further away. Then explained later how difficult it is to keep the girls attention and that it helps for adult volunteers to model listening quietly.

Ha ha- you’re right I didn’t read that correctly at all!

If they don’t want to follow the rules then they don’t have to volunteer.

If they are volunteering surely it’s because they want to help the girls out - and so should want to respect the rules.

Our YL are respectful and collaborative. When you're dealing with adults who think they're above basic respect its a problem

I volunteer with school groups in a museum. Sometimes their teachers/adults talk while I am....I can't really do much except glare at them but I think it is extremely rude and disruptive. When their teachers are talking to the class, I would never do so, and when volunteering with children and young people generally would always seek to model good and respectful behaviour. I do a similar role for money and approach both roles in the same way - with professionalism and commitment. I know it is hard to get volunteers who are prepared to commit but I think especially those who work with children and young people need to take it seriously, down to the last detail really. If they want to chat there are other ways they can volunteer.

Because in the real world, we are kind to people. Being rude and dismissive of people is a mumsnet thing.

There are ways to talk to people and still get a point across. It’s called social skills.

Exactly. And as an occasional cubs helper, I can confirm that 95% of instruction isn’t life saving/safety information.

I do understand how frustrating and rude it is to have people talking over you, but there are ways to talk to people. It doesn’t have to be in the way OP did.

...Then explained later how difficult it is to keep the girls attention and that it helps for adult volunteers to model listening quietly.

Adult volunteers should not need to have this explained to them. Because they are adults and should know how to behave in different circumstances.

Social skills would also cover not chatting over the instructions being provided when you're volunteering and supposed to be helping, I believe.

Very true! I’m not condoning their chatting, it’s rude.

But OP seems to think reprimanding adults is good communication and it’s not. A gentle and kind follow up is more appropriate than a telling off.

Sometimes it’s not the message itself - it’s how you present it.