To have reprimanded two adult volunteers for continuous talking ?

[WitheringHeights8]

For context, I run a local brownie unit, and was trying to get the girls to listen (which, to their credit, most of them did) while to of our adult volunteers continued to chat away loudly to themselves.

I told them assertively to stop talking as I was explaining something. They stopped sheepishly, then irritatingingly continued to chat slightly more quietly. I left it as I didn't want to create any sort of scene, but at the end of the night once the girls had left, made a point of telling them how difficult they'd made it for me when I was trying to set an example to the girls.

One of them retorted "We are adults though, not girls", which I just wryly smiled at and essentially ignored.

I'm actually really upset at thr disrespect and immaturity of the response (as I see it). Yes, they are volunteers, we all are, but when I'm trying to run unit they are not above basic respect for others.

I hope I make it very clearly every week how much I appreciate their help, but this has irked me.

Maybe it was unreasonable, but they do it every week and it was very distracting.

But is this actually an effective way of getting them to see the error of their ways...?

Just chiming in that I do think the disappointing reality of a lot of this was that more leeway (read, repeated disruptive talking) was expected as it is "just" a volunteering job.

If they're offended or embarrassed by being reprimanded... hopefully it will make them look at their behaviour.
If not... then they're just an entitled twat and nothing will change them,.

I think this is the million dollar question.

In a perfect world, where we were all trained in the latest communication techniques for dealing with others, conflicts would lesson and even resolve in a more smooth way.

Alas, I am human, and dealing with my own issues and flaws.

I'd also like to point out that this stance does deflect from their continous poor behaviour and personal responsibility, and puts it firmly in the hands of those of us on thr receiving end.

You did absolutely the right thing. I have been in the same situation. well done in sorting it out.

I mean, if you ever want to feel really bad about how you've dealt with something...post on mumsnet 😂

Can I ask, not on overly specific terms obviously, was the outcome that the volunteers left or maybe it came to a better resolution?

You don't have to share, obviously.

Look, you had a point with their behaviour, but then you reprimanded them like children, in front of children - I'd have left at that point, because I would think to myself 'I don't need to be spoken to like this whilst giving up my time for free'. Then you went a step further and posted on what I presume is a group chat the next day, after you already made your point to them previously (she may have answered you back, which you didn't like, but you made your point already!). If I was getting messages like this when going about my day, I'd feel nagged and honestly couldn't be bothered with it. You went too far with sending that message on the group chat I think, hence why today you lost a volunteer, which you say you couldn't afford to lose.

They're not there to just doss about, they are there to help aid the group, but, they're not there to behave as your paid employee either, because they are not. I've dealt with my fair share of lazy volunteers who don't take it seriously, and they absolutely can become more of a hinderance than a help, so I do sympathise, but respect goes both ways. Swinging your bollocks at people in front of kids will not make people respect you.

My advice would have been to have left it, after having the word with them, and see if the behaviour was repeated, before going on about it AGAIN in a group message after you spoke to them.

In fact, I would have waited to speak to the adults privately about it, or, if you really just couldn't wait, just said to the girls to hang on a mo, and ask the adult women 'can I borrow you for a sec, I need your help with something' and then had a quick word, explaining it's hard to manage the behaviour of the girls if the adults are talking, too, and could they please have a think about how it comes across them.

I'm not saying you would have immediately got the result you wanted, but it's often better to broach things gently and respectfully at the start. Particularly if you have been in your own words, looking the other way and allowing this behaviour for 2 whole terms - that's not good leadership. This is what being a leader is about - knowing how to lead people. If you speak to adults like children, they are going to get their backs up, and you're likely going to gain the opposite of the desired result. You need to be able to switch communication styles to fit whom you're talking to.

Yes, they were behaving in not the correct way, and you had every right to deal with it, as ultimately it's not fair on the kids and is having their time disrupted. That being said, this is all being taken far too seriously for what should be a fun group meeting, and it's important to bear in mind that every adult there volunteering their time, not just you, is doing so for the benefit of the kids. That's what it's all about.

You come across very school teacher-esque, and that you're taking this far, far too seriously, and personally, to boot.

I am a teacher and TAs often do this in class. It's disrespectful and annoying. They are not modelling good behaviour.

Just to add - you say you are relieved they quit. I wouldn't be breathing the sigh yet, I suspect you may have another quit shortly. I of course may be wrong, but I suspect they possibly find your behaviour as irking, as you do theirs.

I remember going to girl guides when I was little. I loved the activities, loved the whole thing - except for the leader. The power got to her head and her way of being, towards both adults and kids, just got worse as time went on. I succinctly remember the day I told my mother I didn't want to go back anymore, after having being spoken to very badly by the leader. I remember her name like it was yesterday, the woman left an awful taste in my mouth as she ruined what was, an otherwise very enjoyable time and 'respite' from things at home! I told my mother 'I don't go to guides to be spoken to like this' and that was that!

OP you are in the right. Well done! When people justify poor behaviur by saying 'he/she is an adult and therefore cannot be told what to do/told off' I think they are trying to excuse their own poor behaviout. As if, just being 'an adult' i.e. over 18, means you can behave who you like wherever you are. It would not be acceptable for instance, for an adult to behave badly in someone else's house - help themselves to food without being invited to/leave any sort of mess/stumblr in at 3am waking everyone up' and for this to be jusrified because they are an adult. Although it often is on this forum. Also when someone behaves as these two women were, it's weak to pussy-foot around and ask them to 'please keep the chat down' or to 'do you a favour'. They are there to do a task, as are you and they are getting in the way of what they are supposed to be facilitating. The fact that they are volunteers does not mean they can do whatever they like during the sessions. You are well rid of them, if they both storm off. I am a teacher and have to speak to LSAs about this sort of thing. Maybe though being assertive means you should say, 'I need you to be quiet when I'm taking.' rather than making it sound as if they are being extra-specially helpful by keeping quiet. It really shouldn't be their choice.

I always thought it was incredibly difficult to find volunteers for these groups. My son got his first Scout place on the proviso that his dad volunteered. I’m astonished that they now appear to be valued so little that when they take exception to the way they’re spoken to the response is “Piss off and good riddance”. Times have clearly changed.

This was absolutely not the case, and volumteers are very thin on the ground for Guiding too. I most certainly did not tell anyone to piss off, and there was a lot to the situation, which escalated to this point, before anyone left. These women were genuinely disruptive, but I did not believe until this morning that it was beyond repair.

I've put up with a lot of inconsistency, laziness and really just having bodies there is generally better than nothing.

There are way more eloquent posts here which describe the predicament and expectations of behaviour, despite it "just "being a volunteer job.

I wanted to comment on your group post on Facebook, but wasn’t brave enough!

I can’t believe they kept talking, they should be setting an example for the girls, you were right to do what you did!

it's a weight off my back as I don't want to work with someone with like that anyway.

Looks an awful lot like an attitude reflecting “Piss off and good riddance” to me.

Valuing volunteers doesn't mean putting up with them being shit. Better to have fewer volunteers than volunteers who actively disrupt the meeting and make it difficult for the girls to fully participate.

How do you deal with TAs talking when they need to be quiet? They might think that different expectations apply to adults in the room etc etc.
Surely you don't just tell them off as if they were a child?
Presumably they need the money though so might put up with an abrasive approach, unlike someone who is giving their time for free

Valuing volunteers doesn’t mean speaking to them like shit either. Or like children.

Or three times about the same issue

How did I speak to them like shit, or children? Were any of you actually there? Or were you 😂

100% this.

I would say I've had it both ways; I have worked with lazy, disruptive volunteers - they are rife in Scouting and Guiding as they have this ridiculous rule of allowing kids into oversubscribed units if the parent volunteers...well they aren't volunteering then, they are being bribed into it. The demands on volunteers in this area from ' head office' is far too much as well.

Volunteering in general is a lawless, crazy area in my experience, I've seen it all ,from charity shop workers who think they can steal stuff and be rude to customers, to gala organisers who give up ridiculous amounts of time only to be accused of dodgy practice and financial impropriety and are mocked on social media, whilst everyone enjoys the fruits of their labour.

We only have your version and it certainly sounds that way from your own account so it would be very interesting to hear it from the other side.

How?

Do you realise the way you're speaking to someone you don't know through a screen, the judgements you're making of my character and the harm you could be causing?

Sounds like the children there were better behaved than them. What message does it send to the children who attend if the adults get away with chatting but the children are reprimanded for it?

You need to find other volunteers.