DH won't let daughter go on school trip to mosque

[RealUmberAnt]

I'm shocked and appalled!! He (M41)says he doesn't want her (DD12) learning about people who marry there daughters off at 9 years old and all their women are oppressed and forced to cover up and do as their told!

I feel like he's taring all Muslims with the same brush and it's good to learn about other religions and see other places of worship!

I'm so mad!! I honestly don't think I can stay with someone who has these opinions!!

Since when did a religion become a race?

This is an example of ignorance and prejudice, not racism.

It’s not stereotyping to say that half of UK Muslim respondents in the IPSOS MORI survey mentioned by a pp think that homosexuality should be illegal - it’s a fact established by an official survey. And two thirds of Muslim women don’t think that they should always obey their husband which is tricky because half of Muslim men think they should.

Given that for Muslim women divorce is far trickier than for men none of this helps improve equality for women. Which is what we are striving for in this country apparently.

A quote from the IPSOS survey linked below. A previous post referring to this survey seems to have been deleted but I fail to see why as it is an official survey by IPSOS MORI.

“Social attitudes
Muslims tend to have more conservative attitudes towards gender roles and homosexuality than the rest of the public, although many of these views were more widely shared by the British public as a whole not long ago. A majority (52%) of Muslims disagree that homosexuality should be legal in Britain, although attitudes among young Muslims are somewhat more liberal (18% of all Muslims but 28% of those aged 18-24 think that it should). Close to half of Muslim men and a third of Muslim women agree that "Wives should always obey their husbands".”

IPSOS survey page 11.

www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/publication/documents/2018-03/a-review-of-survey-research-on-muslims-in-great-britain-ipsos_0.pdf

As a Religious Studies teacher who has been on many trips to mosques, here's my input (for what it's worth)

Any mosque that is a good mosque will allow both boys and girls and all staff to enter. Girls/women will be asked to cover their heads as a sign of respect, however a scarf is fine, you will not be expected to wear a hijab or other religious dress. All pupils and staff will be expected to remove their shoes.

As for the tour, all mosques I have been to take the group around all together and are more than happy to answer any questions the children have (and I've taken secondary, who are very open with their opinions!)

Obviously, as an RE teacher, I think it's incredibly important for students to experience other places of worship.

And for people being very pearl-clutching about the segregation of sexes/genders - in most religions, men have an obligation to pray/worship, so places of worship are often centred around them. Women don't have the same obligations and can pray at home, so there may be less of a focus on them at the physical building.

Do you not think that preventing people from talking about actual facts (like the results of the IPSOS MORI survey you reference) that you admit are true is the things that is going to increase racial tension in itself?

If you don’t like the findings of a survey of Muslim views why don’t you address that for yourself rather than reporting posters just sharing information relevant to the topic?

Do you find it acceptable that some UK Muslims think being gay should be illegal? If we are going to be a tolerant society we need to talk about these things rather than you accusing us of Islamophobia to silence us. That is they we are concerned about proposed Islamophobia laws.

I’m 💯 on your husbands side.

I see you're refusing yet again to answer the questions directed at you and making personal comments. Anyone would think you weren't posting in good faith.

My son visited a Mosque with scouts when he was younger. He had a good time and found it really interesting - especially all the snacks they provided.

We complain that people of different faiths won’t integrate with us - no wonder with attitudes like your husbands. In life we meet all sorts of people - it would be much better to allow your daughter to attend than to have her believe her dad’s rhetoric.

Where specifically do I suggest OP’s daughter is thick.

Just cut and paste - thanks.

It’s all in OPs post. Which is what I referenced in mine.

Based on what is in OPs post - he is a moron and none of the examples you give with your desperate attempt to assume all manner of back stories behind what he said changes that.

If he was talking about the specific mosque then OP would not have said “he is tarring all people with the same brush”.

If he had a bad experience with some muslims and then made an assumption about all muslims as a result like your university example then that would just reinforce what I said - he’s a moron.

If you want to assume all this extra context then knock yourself out. I will just go off what is written until OP offers any further information.

In the contrary, I’m posting in very good faith.

Which questions directed at me am I refusing to answer? Can you remind me?

If you’re referring to the long list of questions you asked that I had already covered in my previous posts then I’m afraid won’t be answering them again. Sorry.

Sorry if you don’t like me pointing out your apparently aggrieved tone at times. That’s just how it’s coming across - you obviously have a different threshold for ‘personal attacks’ than I do.

Read The Imam's Daughter by Hannah Shah to get an idea of what it is like living in a Muslim community in this country.

The book by Jacky Trevane is also very interesting, although it takes place in Egypt.

I've read a fair few of these accounts (can't remember all of them) by women who find themselves living an Islamic life. I think reading such accounts would be more useful than visiting a mosque, where the presentation is brief, one sided and carefully presented in a simple way.

I'm not interested in what you think about my tone and would appreciate it if you stopped making personal comments.

If you go back to the last post of yours I commented on, you'll see my engagement with it. If you could respond to the post, that would be appreciated.

Yes the local authority are aware and work with the community to preserve their lifestyle. There are a few reports about the school issues in the papers, but these are quickly shut down with accusations of specific prejudice towards their wider religious/cultural group than valid criticism of their sect.

They have extensive rules around what to wear - I think some would wish they were as simple as wearing a burkha and niqab at times. These rules all orient around tradition and modesty.

FGM also occurs in hospitals, legally, around the world. Including this one. The difference between elective labioplasty and some types of FGM is that the West agrees that a woman with certain looking anatomy might want to change it aesthetically. Or even if she doesn't, she might want to fit our ideal. So we get qualified surgeons in safe conditions to modify her body to fit our ideas about what is valuable.

We are seeing now with cosmetic surgery that people will find unsafe ways to access it and meet the ideals that society has set. I know for a fact that those who have the kind of FGM you're speaking about will access safe surgical care if they have the means to do so. You see this in women from the ME who often have it performed at world class hospitals.

Of course I agree it should be illegal. But that's not all I'd ban is what I'm saying.

FGM is often performed on children who can't consent, using primitive tools. It's not part of Islam at all and is cultural. It's also done in some Christian cultures.

I've never come across someone trying to justify it before as it's widely accepted in the West as barbaric.

I'm not trying to justify it, I'm saying if you're against it, because against ALL of it. Not just the foreign kind

There's a difference between a woman consenting to surgery and a child being forced into it.

No problem and I’d appreciate it if you could also stop accusing me of things.

There’s been quite a few posts and I haven’t got much time - can you remind me?

If you stop making personal comments, I'll stop asking you not to.

You seem new to forums. If you go back a few pages, you'll see the last post of yours I responded to. If you press quote (bottom left of the post), you'll quote the response and can add an answer at the bottom.

Please let me know if you need further assistance.

That’s good then - you’ve done a good thing in reporting it.

but these are quickly shut down with accusations of specific prejudice towards their wider religious/cultural group than valid criticism of their sect.

So you can see the parallels in this thread then? With the constant shutting down of conversation either accusations of racism and Islamophobia?

Yes. I am against ALL forms of FGM including the sort undergone by young people with mental health conditions such as gender dysphoria.

Oh Lordy me! Hie many pages do you want me to scroll back? Why can’t you just ask your question again if you are that keen for me to answer? I’m putting my shoes on for the school run.

I didn't ask a question, I quoted your post and engaged with what you're saying. I can wait, it's no problem.

I dont have children, but if I dont think that school trips to mosques are appropriate. Same goes for jaunts to Westboro Baptist Church et al.

You seem to be repeating my points back to me.

I don't think preventing DD from going on the trip is a good idea. Islam is a major world religion and is in current affairs frequently. The reality is that a sizeable percentage of our population are Muslim and it is important that we have a good understanding of this religion. Going on the trip will also allow her to make her own mind up about practices within the religion, and form her own opinions of what we, as a society, should respect and also disagree with.