DH threw a tantrum and so I'm taking a pause

[SaraG3018]

Hi all... first time posting on here but no idea what to do.

DD #1 is almost 6 and DD #2 is 6 months. DH has been really stepping up with DD1, kind of taking a kid each, since I had my second DD. At the same time he's had a tricky period and work and I can see he's more stressed.

However, it's been taking its toll on his patience. I often found him growling or yelling at DD1... it felt like though he'd never fully yell at her it was always raised voices and irrelevant threats and punishments. Just the opposite of all gentle parenting guidelines. I've tried to sort this with creating written house rules we both agreed on to help DD1's behaviour, thereby removing the need for arguments or silly uses of no screen time etc. It's kind of working, e.g. you won't pick up your toys ok we'll take this one away. Point to this is just flagging he's been emotional lately and I've been a bit concerned about the effect on DD1.

ANYWAY last night my sister, who just had a baby, asked us both on our WhatsApp group who took which nights with DD2. I laughed and told her I always do all nights, to which she jokingly said wow that's not fair. DH responded with a full tantrum. Excerpts from the tantrum include him saying 'what is maternity leave for, doing f all, am I to give birth then sit around doing f all while he looks after DD1 goes to work does chores and now is expected to also look after DD2 at night, did our mother not teach us anything, why don't I just f'ing marry my sister's husband if he's so perfect'... he stomped about literally kicking toys across the room. Speaking in this way isn't normal for him but in the early days of marriage ten years ago I did have to calm these sorts of outbursts during arguments. I thought he had mellowed out.

I didn't say a word on response to ask this but have quietly booked myself and the girls a hotel for a couple nights. He's going to come home tomorrow to an empty nest.

SO my question. I feel like i can't stand for this type of emotional un-regulation.. but for the kids' sake... should I? AIBU? Despite tonight and the bad moods with DD1 overall he's a very thoughtful and loving father to them. Am I overreacting?

Unfortunately he IS like this, isn't he? You have just been able to manage life for him up until now so it was plain sailing and there was nothing for him to tantrum about. However the test of a person's character isn't how they are when life is good and they have someone available to smooth the rough patches and calm them. You have a husband, a grown man, who can't cope with his job and helping out with a 6 year old without becoming abusive (because lets use the right word, rather than the cutesy and harmless sounding 'tantrum'. He's bullying DD and was abusive to you). That is not a good predictor for how he'd deal with the real struggles and challenges life will inevitably throw your way.

You and your dh need to.grow up! Learn how to communicate and how to support each other. Oh and bitching about him to your family is not being supportive. Sit down and have a kind and calm talk,also consider counselling. Do not run off with the kids!!

This sort of action could seriously destabilise your marriage. You don’t unilaterally remove your children from your spouse just because you’ve had an argument, albeit an immature one on his part.
Talk it through. You both sound very stressed and emotional right now, and with all due respect to your sister, she had no right to weigh in with her thoughts on how you have both been managing things.

Be a grown up. Work this out. Show some love and appreciation as well as making it clear that tantrums from an adult are not acceptable.

OPs sister presumably cares for her and is in a far better position to judge the fairness and dynamics of the situation than posters seeking to defend the man. Why on earth should she have to censor herself to protect the OP from her husband's rage? That's not her responsibility. It is indeed up to him to sort his anger issues. But the GP hasn't got a magic wand and in the meantime the OPs family shouldn't be drafted in to pussy foot around him to keep his problem contained. Why when a man is abusive is it necessary to desperately look around for a woman to blame?

You need better communication between the adults in your home.
Yes him 'having a tantrum' is not ok, but I see this as him being at breaking point. You have noted he is stressed, yet show little concern in supporting him with this.
Instead it reads as you ganging up with your sister to criticise him. Instead of agreeing with your sister you should have been backing your husband up, telling her no he doesn't do nights as he is at work each day and does other things in the home when he comes back, and it would not be fair for him to do nights as well.
You also say baby is 6 months, so I assume at this point there wouldn't be too many night wakes anyway, and if you are breastfeeding he couldn't help with this.
What are your plans for going back to work? As this is where things are really going to need to work better in terms of division of jobs at home and communication between the two of you. You sound fairly organised, when you mentioned the rules for DD but maybe this needs to apply to other areas e.g. meal plan for the week and knowing who's cooking each day.
I think you need to recognise what he actually does, as I am wondering what you do every day once DD is at school and you have at least 5 hours with just the baby?

Growling and yelling at a child all the time with constant threats of punishment to your child is going to leave it's mark on your child and you have said he has form for doing this, he doesn't sound very nice but then again you are not covered in glory either, what was the point in leaving the house? To be spiteful or are you leaving him?

I agree with the maternity leave comment. My husband didn’t do nights as he was working and needed to be well rested. I preferred him to get a good nights sleep so we weren’t both grumpy and sleep deprived. That doesn’t make sense to me! I was also breast feeding so what could he do anyway? He helped in other ways such as making me breakfast and doing the homework. I don’t get the obsession with men having to do night feeds.

Why does he have to use gentle parenting BS if he doesn't believe in it? He is allowed to follow his own parenting method without having to "follow your rules" on how to raise his children.

Moving out without saying anything is just passive aggressive. There is absolutely no need for that. If you need a break you can just tell him, the only reason you wouldn't is because you are trying to punish him.
The toy example is also very passive aggressive for a 6 yo by the way.

You are treating him like a child, maybe try being a supportive partner and parent instead.

This is such an overreaction, and I don’t think you are coming to the partnership of marriage very well either. He’s six months in from having two children, one still a small baby, and working full time. That’s stressful in anyone’s book, on top of you saying he’d also experienced a difficult time at work.

You’re not required to sort out all his problems but you are required to support him. All it sounds like you are doing is pushing a parenting style that your DH is finding fairly ineffective. Where is the part in this story where you sit him down to discuss this properly?

It’s also pretty awful you laughing at him with others about night feeds. I imagine that was a real blow to how he’s already feeling, and I would have been so upset with you. Taking the kids away to a hotel is going to damage your marriage even further. I would be livid if I were him and my trust in you would be completely broken.

Or ops sister is a stirer and he is in a far better position to judge how much he supports his wife and kids than her sister who has a snapshot of the situation.

Or are all the posts on here about mother in laws who make ill thought out/ridiculous /insulting comments to their daughter in laws just supporting their sons because they care about them and know the situation best?

Who knows?

But the way to deal with this is not to disappear with the kids... if op doesn't want to be around her husband then she needs to tell him this and have a conversation, not just wisk the kids away to punish him

If getting angry, shouting, swearing, and kicking toys is abuse - I don't think I know any mother who isn't abusive.

Show me an adult who hasn't lost their temper in their adult life, and I'll show you a liar. That person is either lying to you about their actions, or lying to themselves and repressing/passively aggressively lashing out.

To use that as a standard for abuse undermines and insults women and men who actually suffer genuine abuse, and is one of the reason why "I left an emotionally abusive relationship" is starting to get eye-rolls.

Did he hit her? Push her? Show a pattern of insulting/belittling or controlling behavior to her? Financially control her? manipulate her? threaten her? advance sexually without consent? etc.

No - he got angry and let his emotions out in a not-great way. Which everyone has done at some point in their lives. Certainly most mums have gotten angry and lost it at their partners at least once in their child's early years.

It sounds like you and your sister set him up. How can you tell when someone is 'jokingly responded' on Whatsapp, that's just not possible. His reaction was extreme but up to that point you'd been quite positive about him. And now you want to do the same, have your own tantrum and massively escalate it by him coming home to an empty house. Just get a solicitor instead of playing games.

This is quite one sided and I think you need to acknowledge your own part in this too. I say that as a mum on maternity leave with a 3 week old and a 3 YO. When friends / family ask about who does what, I’m really clear that DP takes the load with the 3YO and house and I’m doing most of the baby stuff - nights etc... To acknowledge only my part would suggest that DP isn’t doing his share, it would be hurtful and upsetting which is the space your DH was in when he reacted to those Watsapp messages.

Agreed. So many posters on Mumsnet hold a standard that I very much doubt they’re adhering to themselves. The vast vast majority of people will lose their temper at some point and act like an idiot, swearing or slamming a door. Bitching about your husband on a group chat when he’s working hard for his family and then sneaking off in the night with his kids to frighten the shit out of him is atrocious behaviour.

Tell your sister to butt out.
I’d be upset if I was your DH too.

You need to sit down and discuss this like adults.

Disappearing to a hotel without a word is as much of a tantrum as his outburst was. It will make things worse, not better.

Op you come across as very passive aggressive and manipulative, and dismissive of your DH which is going to be difficult to live with.

Obviously taking out anger on children is not acceptable but you think you're methods are superior to his when they can be just as damaging to your children.

Quietly taking the children to a hotel is the epitome of this passive aggression and yet you sound so snug about it.

Start communicating directly, as pp have said "use your words" and learn to allow your DH and DCs to do the same.

The tantrum is kind of understandable if stressed but it's the shouting and threats to the kids I'd be worrying about.

I find male anger, violently expressed as in this situation, very frightening and I imagine a 6yo would also be frightened. I think taking a few days away is reasonable, but do tell him what you’re doing and why . Otherwise as pp have said, you’re meeting one outburst with another. Unless he is otherwise abusive I don’t think stonewalling is a productive tactic.

Kicking toys around and swearing isn’t acceptable.

He sounds immature and unkind.

What the hell have I just read?!

However, it's been taking its toll on his patience. I often found him growling or yelling at DD1... it felt like though he'd never fully yell at her it was always raised voices and irrelevant threats and punishments. Just the opposite of all gentle parenting guidelines. I've tried to sort this with creating written house rules we both agreed on to help DD1's behaviour, thereby removing the need for arguments or silly uses of no screen time etc. It's kind of working,

DH responded with a full tantrum

Why the heck is he “growling” at your dd?!

Your H is an abusive arse, you can’t let your dc live in such an environment. I would go to a hotel and would be telling him he either goes and gets help/therapy so his behaviour changes or he leaves.

My dh once lost his temper with our Dd, shouting at her in an absolutely horrible way. (the way his father shouted at him when he was a child). I told him if he ever spoke like that again I would divorce him in an instant. He never has and that was 20 years ago.

Unilaterally removing his children to punish your husband, after you and your sister have ganged up to take the hand out of him? As unacceptable as his subsequent tantrum. How would you feel if he did this to you? Be very careful here…

His reaction is obviously unacceptable.

He seems to treat your oldest very badly.

Do you usually do everything plus work?

If you go away will he not just see that as you giving him a break?

Please don't do this. Cousin's wife took the kids, emptied the bank account and left. He came home to empty house. Beginning of divorce out of a clear blue sky. Just an awful thing to do. (Their USA state laws meant she had to bring the kids back).
Your husband sounds stretched and stressed. Your sister needs to keep her beak out.