Dad using individual ladies loo to change baby – what’s the etiquette?

[horchatatresleches]

We were at a small cafe we hadn’t visited before – just me, DH, and our baby DS. When DS needed changing, DH went to check the facilities but came back quickly saying the baby change was in the ladies so I changed him but it got me wondering about what is the etiquette.

The setup was one of those where the mens and women loos are both single-occupancy, self-contained rooms that open off the same hallway – not communal spaces with stalls. So it’s not like he’d be walking into a room with other women inside and making anyone uncomfortable. I’ve been to similar cafes where both loos are labelled gender-neutral, which seems simpler. Personally, I wouldn’t bat an eye if I saw a dad coming out of that kind of loo with a baby, but DH felt uncomfortable using the ladies even though there was no one else around. He wasn’t sure what he’d have done if I hadn’t been there to help.

Is there an etiquette about dads using the ladies in this kind of setup if that’s where the baby change is?
YANBU - he’s fine to use the baby change
YABU - he shouldn’t go in the ladies there

They’re not giving up their space to a man. They’re waiting a couple of minutes for a parent to change a child, just as they’d have to if a mother was doing the changing. It really shouldn’t cause so much angst imo.

I don't get what the issue is with sanitary bins. Yes, men wont need them, but they wont spontaneously combust if they see one either. I mean, disabled loos are for men and women, and have them in too.

Yes.

We were in a restaurant with this exact set up yesterday, it’s a small place and there’s just two entirely self-contained single occupancy units, one tiny one marked gents and one spacious one marked ladies / disabled / changing and fitted out as such. DH changed DS so obviously he used the one with the changing table. It’s a self-contained room onto a general access corridor, by no stretch of the imagination is it ‘going into the Ladies’ toilets’ as some on this thread are suggesting.

But what if someone else comes in while the daughter is on the loo (or even if it is a constant stream of men)?

Our experience so far has been that the baby change is in gender neutral places. Everywhere we go to frequently doesn’t need any work or campaigning. This is the first time we’ve encountered this, and because it’s not somewhere we’ll go back to, he probably won’t campaign for the signage on loos to change. As it seems to be more in independent businesses than large ones, there’s not really a joined up campaign. He’d talk to somewhere we go to frequently though. The mens was apparently significantly smaller than the womens so there would be no scope to add a baby change there - it would just be a case of having two gender neutral lavatories if it were to change. Like a lot of independent cafes, there’s not a lot of spare space.

Because of course a baby changing station in the gents will be set up in 5 mins

If a man is in the women’s then a woman who needs that bin can’t access it because it a man is where he shouldn’t be.

It's a single cubicle. No one else would be in there

If another woman is using the single cubicle then the waiting woman who needs the sanitary bin won't be able to use it until the cubicle is free anyway.

I’m sure that Jersey airport only had baby shaming in the ladies toilets when we were there a few years ago. DH was completely baffled

Men do need them actually. This gent started the Boys need bins campaign to address this: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cxrr4y2nvydo .

DH used to have this problem in certain places, if he was on his own he would speak to staff to check first and usually a staff member would also assist by standing outside.

Unfortunately quite a few places had this problem. DH would often get praised by women for changing the nappy in the first place though 🙄

Of course not but why should the issue be compounded by a man being where he shouldn’t be? We don’t have enough spaces as it is. So I’d rather not give the spaces we do have away in some misguided attempt at “equality”.

It’s not a perfect situation, but in principle it would be not any man, but a not very frequent situation of a man with a daughter. I would be comfortable if my older daughter is in one cubicle and a man with his young daughter is in another. I would not wish for that young girl to watch men urinating.

In circumstances like this toilets need to be for anyone, single sex spaces don’t work if they don’t provide accessible toilets and baby changing in both men and women

And if a woman is in there who is not on her period, she is also denying access to the woman that needs that bin.
How long are people in loos? Anyone can wait a couple of minutes.

This issue is that as soon as you make a space unisex it’s for all men to use - not just the ones with babies. That would be direct sex discrimination, I believe.

I know it was a typo, but "baby shaming" made me smile. I wonder what that would look like in reality. 😅

Oh, come on now you are being really ridiculous. Are you seriously saying that only female babies should be changed in a ladies loo with baby changing facilities or are you so keen to keep banging your drum that you aren't even reading responses properly?

Don’t be a fool.

I was discussing the options in the cafe I was in. Discussing cubicle sizes with DH, the room allocated to the men was tiny and didn’t have space for a baby changing table. The ladies was quite large and comfortably fit a changing table. If there was space then adding a baby change to mens should be considered.

I don’t see self contained loos as spaces which need to be protected. Only one person can be in at a time. Many other cafes and coffee shops we go to have two or three gender neutral loos and that seems to work well. A fair few only have one loo so no way to gender segregate that! It seems arbitrary to label one for men and one for women when it’s a loo and a sink which could be used by anyone.

As I said, he won’t raise it with that cafe as it’s not likely we’ll go back there. He didn’t raise it at the time because it was seriously understaffed, and in the time it took him to take the DS to the men’s, realise there was no baby change there, give DS to me, and me to change him and return, the same person was still at the front of the queue waiting to speak to someone (the glacial pace being part of the reason we don’t want to return). He would raise it at a venue where speaking to someone wouldn’t take as long as just driving home to change the baby or somewhere we would return to.

This would be the sensible option and simple to implement.

We flew from Jersey twice last year with DS. There is at least one dual purpose unisex disabled toilet with baby change.

In this situation he should just use the ladies - it is a piss take that places assume the woman will be the one changing the nappy 🙄