Dad using individual ladies loo to change baby – what’s the etiquette?

[horchatatresleches]

We were at a small cafe we hadn’t visited before – just me, DH, and our baby DS. When DS needed changing, DH went to check the facilities but came back quickly saying the baby change was in the ladies so I changed him but it got me wondering about what is the etiquette.

The setup was one of those where the mens and women loos are both single-occupancy, self-contained rooms that open off the same hallway – not communal spaces with stalls. So it’s not like he’d be walking into a room with other women inside and making anyone uncomfortable. I’ve been to similar cafes where both loos are labelled gender-neutral, which seems simpler. Personally, I wouldn’t bat an eye if I saw a dad coming out of that kind of loo with a baby, but DH felt uncomfortable using the ladies even though there was no one else around. He wasn’t sure what he’d have done if I hadn’t been there to help.

Is there an etiquette about dads using the ladies in this kind of setup if that’s where the baby change is?
YANBU - he’s fine to use the baby change
YABU - he shouldn’t go in the ladies there

I’m confused - it wasn’t your post. 😵‍💫

A dad and child can use any toilet with the changing facilities it's not an issue

At the sink in the baby changing room…? Where else would you wash your hands?

I agree.

If these were single occupancy changing rooms going out into the cafe as described they should both be marked as either sex with the baby changing sign on the one with the baby changing. Bit silly really that they don't, because by doing this they would also not have to worry about the increasing number of toilet users confused about what sex they are.

No, I took your comment precisely as you wrote it. And from that, I said you were being silly. And now I think you've been even more silly. Go you.

I'm even more confused now! And I don't think it's me being silly either! 😂

Agree - I don’t know where this myth that public ladies toilets are a “safe space” comes from. My safe space is my home with locks and under my control. I’ve never been in any public toilets that I would describe as a “safe space”. The only reason I prefer segregated ladies toilets to unisex toilets is, let’s be honest, they tend to be cleaner :)

Sorry - what legal obligation do they have to provide single sex spaces for women? I can’t for the life of me imagine how you think this is a real thing when most cafes clearly just have one toilet.

You cant resist the urge to attempt insults and make up stories while trying to argue that toilet design which moves a man into a womans space because he needs to change his baby is fair provision. Removing him from the Able Mens SSS Q and add him to the Womens and Disabled Mens and anybody elses Q would not change wait times on either Q

I witnessed this recently in a cafe a male and a female toilet. The chap asked and was told to use the ladies. He was very embarrassed and full of apologies.
I wouldn't want my husband to change a baby on the floor of the gents.

Or just label them as toilets and and baby change to one as appropriate.

Since the OP has now said that the men's toilet isn't big enough for a changing table, I agree this would make more sense.

Haha you're hilarious. I concede that my previous post was incorrect and clumsily written.

I suspect I'm not the first person to say this to you, but I don't want to engage with you anymore. Have a nice evening and try to work on your desire to be unpleasant to strangers on the internet who don't share your opinion.

There is something fundamentally wrong with you when you're unable to communicate without resorting to insults. Maybe you have had a hard time in life (bullied, perhaps?), maybe you're just an arsehole. Who knows?

Wheelchair access with transfer bars etc have been the law since the 70s but baby changing units are still not covered under any act.

There is a changing spaces campaign which helped change the building regs obliging big venues to design and provide specific disability equipment
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/changing-places-toilets-for-severely-disabled-people-to-be-compulsory-in-new-public-buildings

Yet even the bog standard Able unit is still designed for a man as the toilet is centered in the space with no obligation to design in a bin space or add even an extra few cms to the stall.

I'm hilarious? Okay!

It's a single occupancy toilet not communial with stalls????? If I had to wait and saw a man coming out with a baby I wouldn't bat an eye.....

Multiple people have called you out for being wrong - but I'm the arsehole? I'm frankly glad you're not engaging anymore. It's just a toilet. Really, it doesn't matter who uses it. That's all.

Its not a "safe space" it is a safer space as a semi-private space is without men. Separation of provision into either sex was in part about safe provision as men had the open urinal area
[(Edit) and women have to get half naked everytime they use a toilet ]

The term comes in part from trans ideology where some men need to have full access to womens toilets and spaces as these men need a safe space away from the violent men who use the mens room.

The safer space was designed into UK public toilets and still a factor in "third world" areas with no domestic plumbing. Having a clear social contract of no men ever allows the designers to create a man free buffer zone around the womens SSS eg access points to either sex will be designed as far away as possible rather than side by side.

A man hanging around the womens access point is a red flag for the police and community as a whole. The breach of the social contract begins as the man enters the public space buffer zone and before the man enters the toilet itself. Making the semi-private space a little safer.

But I agree removing men who spray urine onto the seat and lid of sanitary bin and the floor makes for a cleaner space.🤷‍♀️

The petrol station design does not move a man into a woman’s space. It uses a single occupancy room for a number of different uses for people of both sexes.

I didn’t notice disabled facilities as I’m lucky enough to not need them. The ladies was the first room on the corridor - but I can’t imagine there was room for a third loo there, especially not big enough to be a disabled one. The ladies could have been, but I didn’t need the loo so only looked as far as the changing table. If it was the disabled loo also, that makes the ladies sign even weirder. Even if you accept that men shouldn’t use that space to change their baby (and despite the debate here, my view is still that making them both gender neutral makes most sense), a man who needs an accessible loo doesn’t have any other options - and as not all disabilities are visible there would be good reason a seemingly able bodied man would need to used the ladies (plus baby change, plus accessible bathroom).

I'd reluctantly accept this, but think that all sides (both women and men) should make the point to the café owners that men are parents too so also need facilities to change their babies' nappies.

He should ask the manager.
It would stress the sexist nature of the arrangement.
If there’s only one toilet for women and it has the baby change thats very unfare.
Women need the toilet more than men so there should be a unit in both toilets or somewhere else.

As an aside I don’t agree the toilets should be labelled as mixed sex or neutral.
Women need a toilet without wee on the floor and without the chance of a man hiding camera devices.
It happens more than you can imagine.

OP in the current circumstances of course your dh should use the facilities provided irrespective of location after he’s made them aware

It’s fine. It really annoys me when baby changing facilities are in women’s toilets. Changing a baby isn’t just women’s work.

The reason he didn’t ask is that the service was incredibly slow (one of the reasons we won’t be returning). I can’t remember if I said this already, but in the time it took him to take the baby to the loos, realise there was no gender neutral baby change, hand the baby to me and me changing the baby and walking back through the cafe, the person at the front of the queue was still waiting to speak to someone to order. Changing the baby quickly was more of a priority, because he had a touch of nappy rash at the weekend and we didn’t want it to worsen.

I also don’t see why making the cafe aware makes any difference if the concern is protecting single sex facilities. He’d ask, they’d say just use the one in the ladies and if they did take action, their only realistic option would be to make the loos gender neutral. As far as we saw there were two loos, one tiny one labelled men’s, and a larger one labelled women’s with a baby change. There was only one space big enough for the baby change so unless they move signs so that baby change is in the mens bathroom (which still means that around half of parents can’t access the space they need to change their child) there’s not another option. It’s not a large Costa in a purpose built out of town retail park which have modern WC requirements baked in. Most cafes I’ve been to of a similar size only have one loo for everyone.

This.