Dad using individual ladies loo to change baby – what’s the etiquette?

[horchatatresleches]

We were at a small cafe we hadn’t visited before – just me, DH, and our baby DS. When DS needed changing, DH went to check the facilities but came back quickly saying the baby change was in the ladies so I changed him but it got me wondering about what is the etiquette.

The setup was one of those where the mens and women loos are both single-occupancy, self-contained rooms that open off the same hallway – not communal spaces with stalls. So it’s not like he’d be walking into a room with other women inside and making anyone uncomfortable. I’ve been to similar cafes where both loos are labelled gender-neutral, which seems simpler. Personally, I wouldn’t bat an eye if I saw a dad coming out of that kind of loo with a baby, but DH felt uncomfortable using the ladies even though there was no one else around. He wasn’t sure what he’d have done if I hadn’t been there to help.

Is there an etiquette about dads using the ladies in this kind of setup if that’s where the baby change is?
YANBU - he’s fine to use the baby change
YABU - he shouldn’t go in the ladies there

No - just like the first time a woman would have experienced this.

Well, no, it should be marked as unisex.

Why would any woman feel uncomfortable about aan walking out of a baby change area holding a baby?
I can't see the issue, it's clearly a toilet and a baby change area, it isn't a single sex space only for women to change female only babies.

It is if it’s labelled Ladies/women/female.

Yes, there is: If you are a man, you do not enter a ladies' restroom. With or without a baby, it's just not okay. You might not "bat an eye" or feel uncomfortable about it, but many other women would. For instance, I have many Muslim friends who always like to adjust their headscarves when they are in public restrooms...they would absolutely not be impressed by your husband galavanting into the restroom with your baby.

When it’s DH’s turn to take my boy and girl twins to the toilet, upon some consideration I started to ask him to take them to the ladies’ toilet. Ladies’ toliets always have individual cubicles, so nobody is exposed. Men are more exposed, I didn’t want my daughter to see them urinating. But I can understand that men might be uncomfortable going into the ladies’ toilet.

Read the OP. They are individual self contained rooms. No one is waltzing into them when they are occupied.

I did read that. But women change their scarves in the open area, typically, where there are mirrors, decent lighting and more space to leave your bag. So a man would see them unscarved if he walked into the ladies' restroom.

Even myself, I sometimes adjust my bra and my clothes in the same open area, I do NOT want to see a man walking in while I'm doing that.

If you read it then you didn't understand. OP is not on about restrooms with multiple cubicles. She is on about self contained rooms in a cafe.
There is no open area with the loos in the OP. They open up into a corridor in the cafe. Mirrors, sink etc are IN the cubicle.

The open area in OPs case is the actual cafe.

Bit there is no open space its just one room with a locked door. Like a disabled toilet!

So you don't think your daughter should have a single sex toilet when she's older, and that any random man could go in?

Sweet fucking Jesus. It doesn’t matter. Would you refuse to go into an individually locked unisex toilet if it said, ‘Penguins only’ on it? It’s just a word. You’re being absolutely ridiculous. It will be THE SAME PLACE if the cafe owner labels it penguins, men, women, aliens or fucking idiots. It doesn’t matter.

In that situation it would be fine. If it was in the main area of the communal women's toilets and he's alone with her in another situation then he could always lay the pushchair flat to change her in there instead. Usually if it's communal toilets then the changing table is in the disabled cubicle though.

For single occupancy ones I think it's fine for hin to use it to change the baby, but I too would be complaining (probably to myself because im pretty shy) about sexist facilities because men should be able to change the baby without going in the ladies toilets!

It’s self contained. He wouldn’t be in there with anyone. Yes, there should be changing facilities in both and you should complain but it’s no big deal.

I wouldn’t want my baby changed on the floor of public WC unless there was no other option. And changing him in the main bit of a restaurant is unhygienic and not private for the baby (he doesn’t care but I do). Speaking to the cafe owner would have been slower than coming back to me, handing me the baby and me doing the change judging by the static queue in the shop. If it was somewhere we planned to go back to I’d speak to them about either making both cubicles gender neutral or having the ladies be ladies & baby change. My able bodied privilege is speaking, but I didn’t notice if there was a disabled loo there. The first one in the corridor was the ladies/baby change and I stopped looking at that point.

If he was alone of course he’d have changed the baby somewhere, he just wasn’t sure if he’d have tried to get the attention of the owner to ask if he was welcome in the ladies, or tried to make it work in the men’s. But DS is EBF anyway, so I’ll almost always be there.

There isn’t a forcefield on the door. The SC decision doesn’t protect anyone from an assailant.
Also the toilet in the OP isn’t a shared space anyway.

Ah! I thought she meant individual closed cubicles in a shared bathroom. I mean, it wouldn't be great for a man to use a female cubicle, but with a baby I wouldn't be bothered I think.

Not at all appropriate...
He can glance in himself and check if anyone is exposed and wait 10 seconds if need be.
How awkward to put your DH in that position he'll look like a creep that's using the DC as an excuse to go in.

Some women might because they aren't thinking of it as a baby change, they're thinking of it as the women's loo.

In my workplace there are three self contained loos - one marked accessible, one marked men’s and one marked women’s. I would never use the men’s and I don’t expect the men to use the women’s (which contains the sanitary bin). That they are self contained is irrelevant.

Women are, of course, well-used to there not being enough facilities for them - just look at any theatre or railway station - huge queues for the women, men just waltzing through.

So I don’t see why they should have to give up their space to a man just because it’s self contained.

He can do what women did for years, and campaign for more changing tables in male spaces. This is my real
o section - that men simply won’t do the work needed but will hijack women’s work instead. And then it gets called equality.

So what exactly would be uncomfortable about that? Man comes out of toilet with baby - ooh terrifying! Save me!!!

Nonsense.

Interesting that you don’t see a changing space within the men’s as an option - just women giving up their spaces.

Is your DH going to raise the lack of changing tables in the men’s with the cafe?

A man knocked on ladies' toilet door in a pub and asked if there was a baby changing facility. I said yes and he asked if I could wheel it out to him. He took it into the men's toilets. That was how it should be imo. Although depends in whether the nappy station is fixed or not, of course.

As it's a self-contained cubicle with no communal space, there is no compromise of female safety or privacy to other users.

Ideally there should be a changing facility clearly avaliable to men, but I wonder if the ladies' toilet has more space to accommodate the table and bins and it might not be practical to put provision in both toilets.