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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

My 84yr old Mum asked if she should be addressed as a Woman

323 replies

Horrace · 12/05/2025 13:19

Yesterday my 84yr old Mum had to be interviewed by the police after witnessing a sudden death of a close friend. The death was traumatic in itself and happened abroad.
The first question the officer asked my mum was " would you like to be addressed as a woman?"
My mother was furious at this but also so upset and tired that she burst into tears.
I am so cross. I don't understand why they would ask her this. Would they ask a man similar.

OP posts:
BundleBoogie · 14/05/2025 17:02

Horseebooks · 14/05/2025 16:04

What’s funny about this is it all came out of me saying that I’ve been mistaken for a trans woman, rather than anything I said about my personal ability or otherwise to judge chromosomes on sight - I’ve never tested that and have no interest in doing so. Given my experiences though at least I know if I couldn’t behave dog or horse like enough, I wouldn’t be the only one…

It was your rather hostile implication that it’s the fault of all of us - “you lot” that you’ve been mistaken for a man identifying as a woman. That is a very common trans activist talking point to argue that nobody can really tell which sex anyone is, therefore we should definitely let men into women’s spaces.

My butch friends who are pro female inly spaces understand the dilemma and actually appreciate the efforts other women make to help keep spaces single sex. I can imagine it feels insulting to be mistaken for a man but surely you can dispel any misunderstanding quite quickly?

I’ve been mistaken for a trans woman (tall, big shoulders, massive hands). Before you lot all decided you could always tell it was only a couple of times (or it was probably loads of times but nobody cared). Looking forward to loads of fun in bathrooms going forward.

BundleBoogie · 14/05/2025 17:07

Oldglasses · 14/05/2025 16:34

I had a scan the other day and I could see on the form there was a box to tick if you were not going by the sex you were born as. I would say this was pretty important if you were a transman and still had periods for example as for this scan you couldn't be 'on'.
But why didn't they ask your mum if she was happy to be referred to as Mrs X as whether she was a man or a woman wasn't of any consquence here surely.

The problem with this is that transman is a self declared ‘identity’ but the NHS question related to the patients sex.

It is mightily worrying (and dangerous) that the NHS has been persuaded to prioritise ‘identity’ over a persons sex. Some patients have already been harmed by this. In one tragic case a baby died unnecessarily because the mother had convinced medics she was male.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 14/05/2025 17:07

Horseebooks · 14/05/2025 15:41

Oh I’m so sorry you’re right. It depends really I suppose, whether one saying I appear to lack a skill dogs have counts as a comparison to a dog, or just putting me in some kind of general animal class. Odd, anyway. I’m used to this tone from the men’s rights corners of the internet, so I’m fully aware you’ll have some argument that actually I’m the stupid one and that’s not what this says at all. It was kind of my point I guess, about women attacking others with different views.

Are you one of these rare people who can’t tell what sex the person in front of you is then? It’s a strange affliction claimed by the righteous. Even dogs and horses can tell the sex of humans so I feel sorry for your lack of ability. It must be very awkward at times.”

I'm not sure the comparison to dogs is all that helpful anyway given that dogs have skills humans lack (and lack skills that humans have).

What I would say is this. Since the pushback against male people in women's spaces began, there have been a lot of claims from the trans activist camp that women who don't present in a stereotypically feminine way are frequently being mistaken for men and challenged in women's toilets.

In many cases it is very apparent that the people making these claims are lying. There was one particularly flagrant example in Pink News where the woman who was supposedly mistaken for a man was a very pretty, feminine looking woman who was just wearing a hoodie. They really must think readers were born yesterday if they think any of us are going to believe that that woman has ever been mistaken for a man.

So whilst I acknowledge that it is possible that some women have been mistaken for men, and that you may be one of those women, it is also important to acknowledge that this is something people lie about on the internet all the time, and we have no way of telling who is lying and who is telling the truth.

Humans, particularly women really are incredibly adept at telling what sex someone else is. Perhaps a small number of trans people genuinely do "pass", but I've clocked so many who don't. And I've seen a great many non-feminine women and never had a single second's confusion.

In addition to this, trans women are much less likely to "pass" than trans men due to the irreversible effects of testosterone on the adult body. But in order to "pass" as a man, a trans man would have to not only be bigger than the average woman, they would also need to take testosterone to alter their hair growth pattern, voice and musculature, and either have a mastectomy or bind their breasts. Those things don't happen overnight, or by accident. They are deliberate and permanent interventions performed on the female body with the express intention of making that body appear male. It's not really the kind of look that a woman can achieve just by being a bit butch/flat chested and cutting her hair short.

The other issue is that we have all spent the last decade or so being told we must not challenge a trans woman (i.e. a biological man) in a women only space. And indeed many or even most of us would be afraid to challenge a male person in women's toilets or changing rooms for fear of him reacting in a violent way. As such, people challenging someone about their right to be in women's spaces is not something that happens very often even when it is perfectly obvious that the person is male. So what you are asking us to believe is not only that a female person has been mistaken for a male person, but also that that female person was actually challenged about her right to be in a women only space. Both of those things are unlikely to happen on their own. The chance of both those two things happening in combination with each other is really very tiny indeed.

So maybe you feel that the responses to your post about being mistaken for a trans women are insufficiently respectful. But try to see it in the context of everyone here being bloody sick of hearing these stories from an increasing number of people who are clearly lying.

And as many others have pointed out, the knowledge that women's spaces are indeed being used by biological males has certainly made many women a lot more nervous about this and more inclined to second guess women who look a bit masculine. This isn't the fault of the women who just want their single sex spaces to actually be single sex. It's the fault of the male people who have been using women's single sex spaces without our consent. So if you have actually been mistaken for a trans woman and challenged about your right to use women's toilets, I'm very sorry that happened to you but please direct the blame where it properly belongs.

Horseebooks · 14/05/2025 17:08

BundleBoogie · 14/05/2025 16:29

I saw earlier that you were offended by me asking if you were actually a transwoman for which I apologise.

From your posts which were rather hostile to ‘you lot’ (which I took to mean women) it seemed that your stance was very pro trans so I really didn’t imagine you’d find the question insulting. It was just curiosity on my part.

Do you agree that women might be more jumpy in female only spaces because so many men have decided it’s their right to use them? It’s not having a go at you personally.

oh I wasn’t offended. I thought it was funny, because it was very like how it used to happen in ye olden days, where because I didn’t fit all the ‘woman’ criteria I got ‘TRANNY’ shouted at me in the street a few times. It felt like you were saying it to evict me from your own ‘women’ criteria, ie people who are actively interested in knowing what people’s chromosomes are in certain situations. That’s not my criteria for women so no, it’s not what I meant by ‘you lot’. I meant people with the aforementioned interest in chromosomes.

I don’t really know what you mean by ‘pro trans’, it feels like saying ‘pro gay’ to mean ‘not homophobic’ or ‘pro people who aren’t white’ to mean not racist. I mean, obviously I’m pro trans, trans people exist and should have the same rights and protections as everyone else, but it feels like you see that as a bad thing whereas to me it’s a very obvious good one, so we may struggle.

about ten years ago I did a lot of thinking about trans women and cis women so yes I very much understand the feeling of ?fear? you mean - though in the end I decided that a lot of the fears I had had practical solutions, and some were not practical fears - they were about some indefinable loss of status, or a fear of what happens to what I know as the category ‘women’ if our boundaries start to blur (lord knows we’ve been through enough, etc etc). I’ve never seen any kind of reasonable discussion about it on mumsnet though, it always looks to me like there’s a real desire to pull up the drawbridge and throw boiling oil on outsiders with different views. To be clear, that’s what it looks like to me, I’m sure it doesn’t look like that to you. So maybe everyone’s just too far apart at this point. Dunno what comes after that tho and whatever side of it you’re on, it really doesn’t seem like a win for society to me.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 14/05/2025 17:21

MissScarletInTheBallroom
The other issue is that we have all spent the last decade or so being told we must not challenge a trans woman (i.e. a biological man) in a women only space. And indeed many or even most of us would be afraid to challenge a male person in women's toilets or changing rooms for fear of him reacting in a violent way. As such, people challenging someone about their right to be in women's spaces is not something that happens very often even when it is perfectly obvious that the person is male.

Even more distressingly, if an obviously male person comes into a women's changing area and (because she doesn't wish to be naked or partly clothed in front of him) a woman who is there decides that he can "identify" how he likes, she'll come back later, she may be attacked by him verbally and have her job put at risk because she has been "bigotted". It's happened, even when the woman in that difficult situation did not challenge the man at all, just tried to evade or avoid him.

Horseebooks · 14/05/2025 17:25

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 14/05/2025 17:07

I'm not sure the comparison to dogs is all that helpful anyway given that dogs have skills humans lack (and lack skills that humans have).

What I would say is this. Since the pushback against male people in women's spaces began, there have been a lot of claims from the trans activist camp that women who don't present in a stereotypically feminine way are frequently being mistaken for men and challenged in women's toilets.

In many cases it is very apparent that the people making these claims are lying. There was one particularly flagrant example in Pink News where the woman who was supposedly mistaken for a man was a very pretty, feminine looking woman who was just wearing a hoodie. They really must think readers were born yesterday if they think any of us are going to believe that that woman has ever been mistaken for a man.

So whilst I acknowledge that it is possible that some women have been mistaken for men, and that you may be one of those women, it is also important to acknowledge that this is something people lie about on the internet all the time, and we have no way of telling who is lying and who is telling the truth.

Humans, particularly women really are incredibly adept at telling what sex someone else is. Perhaps a small number of trans people genuinely do "pass", but I've clocked so many who don't. And I've seen a great many non-feminine women and never had a single second's confusion.

In addition to this, trans women are much less likely to "pass" than trans men due to the irreversible effects of testosterone on the adult body. But in order to "pass" as a man, a trans man would have to not only be bigger than the average woman, they would also need to take testosterone to alter their hair growth pattern, voice and musculature, and either have a mastectomy or bind their breasts. Those things don't happen overnight, or by accident. They are deliberate and permanent interventions performed on the female body with the express intention of making that body appear male. It's not really the kind of look that a woman can achieve just by being a bit butch/flat chested and cutting her hair short.

The other issue is that we have all spent the last decade or so being told we must not challenge a trans woman (i.e. a biological man) in a women only space. And indeed many or even most of us would be afraid to challenge a male person in women's toilets or changing rooms for fear of him reacting in a violent way. As such, people challenging someone about their right to be in women's spaces is not something that happens very often even when it is perfectly obvious that the person is male. So what you are asking us to believe is not only that a female person has been mistaken for a male person, but also that that female person was actually challenged about her right to be in a women only space. Both of those things are unlikely to happen on their own. The chance of both those two things happening in combination with each other is really very tiny indeed.

So maybe you feel that the responses to your post about being mistaken for a trans women are insufficiently respectful. But try to see it in the context of everyone here being bloody sick of hearing these stories from an increasing number of people who are clearly lying.

And as many others have pointed out, the knowledge that women's spaces are indeed being used by biological males has certainly made many women a lot more nervous about this and more inclined to second guess women who look a bit masculine. This isn't the fault of the women who just want their single sex spaces to actually be single sex. It's the fault of the male people who have been using women's single sex spaces without our consent. So if you have actually been mistaken for a trans woman and challenged about your right to use women's toilets, I'm very sorry that happened to you but please direct the blame where it properly belongs.

Edited

nobody ever implied I was lying except you, just now. It went straight to saying I couldn’t spot trans people - I don’t get why that would be the response to someone who’s lying but I don’t get a lot of stuff about the GC position so fair enough.

I don’t mind if people think I’m trans. I will mind if someone comes up to me in a bathroom or something and starts giving me shit about it. And if they do, I will blame that person, and that person specifically.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 14/05/2025 17:40

Horseebooks · 14/05/2025 17:25

nobody ever implied I was lying except you, just now. It went straight to saying I couldn’t spot trans people - I don’t get why that would be the response to someone who’s lying but I don’t get a lot of stuff about the GC position so fair enough.

I don’t mind if people think I’m trans. I will mind if someone comes up to me in a bathroom or something and starts giving me shit about it. And if they do, I will blame that person, and that person specifically.

Maybe nobody implied that you were lying but the uncomfortable truth is that we have to assume that anyone on the internet claiming to be a woman who has been mistaken for a man is lying, because so many people are lying about it these days.

And I never said you can't spot trans people. I think nearly everyone can spot trans people. The point I was making is that it is very difficult for a woman to be mistaken for a man even when she's trying really hard to be mistaken for one (via surgery and testosterone) so it's even less likely that she will be mistaken for one without trying.

In all honesty, the only women I believe when they say they have been mistaken for men are the ones who follow it up with, "But it was no big deal, I just laughed and said I was a woman and they realised straight away that they had made a mistake."

I would assume that anyone who self describes as "cis" for the purposes of their story and claims that this is evidence for why excluding trans women from women's spaces makes all women less safe is telling big fat porkie pies.

MyOliveHelper · 14/05/2025 17:47

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 14/05/2025 17:40

Maybe nobody implied that you were lying but the uncomfortable truth is that we have to assume that anyone on the internet claiming to be a woman who has been mistaken for a man is lying, because so many people are lying about it these days.

And I never said you can't spot trans people. I think nearly everyone can spot trans people. The point I was making is that it is very difficult for a woman to be mistaken for a man even when she's trying really hard to be mistaken for one (via surgery and testosterone) so it's even less likely that she will be mistaken for one without trying.

In all honesty, the only women I believe when they say they have been mistaken for men are the ones who follow it up with, "But it was no big deal, I just laughed and said I was a woman and they realised straight away that they had made a mistake."

I would assume that anyone who self describes as "cis" for the purposes of their story and claims that this is evidence for why excluding trans women from women's spaces makes all women less safe is telling big fat porkie pies.

I've found it a big deal personally, because there were always racist overtones to when people either mistook me for a man, or commented on how "masculine" I am. It doesnt help that it's only ever been white women who do it and typically for not looking like them or sometimes, for not sharing their opinions on women's issues.

I'm just a tall, well built, Black woman with a deep voice and I used to have short hair. I'm not butch. I'm not gay. I'm also GC. And it's happened to me.

LookingAtMyBhunas · 14/05/2025 17:49

wlv12 · 12/05/2025 17:24

I’m a midwife and have to ask patients at their initial booking appointment if they identify as female and ditto to their partner, male or female so yes, they could very well ask males if they would like to be addressed as a male.

It’s literally a question we have to answer on our computer system before I can move on with other questions. I dont know if it’s the same in the police. I hope your mum is ok.

I'm a police officer and I've never done this nor heard any other officer doing this. Surely it must be a language barrier.

BundleBoogie · 14/05/2025 17:55

Horseebooks · 14/05/2025 17:08

oh I wasn’t offended. I thought it was funny, because it was very like how it used to happen in ye olden days, where because I didn’t fit all the ‘woman’ criteria I got ‘TRANNY’ shouted at me in the street a few times. It felt like you were saying it to evict me from your own ‘women’ criteria, ie people who are actively interested in knowing what people’s chromosomes are in certain situations. That’s not my criteria for women so no, it’s not what I meant by ‘you lot’. I meant people with the aforementioned interest in chromosomes.

I don’t really know what you mean by ‘pro trans’, it feels like saying ‘pro gay’ to mean ‘not homophobic’ or ‘pro people who aren’t white’ to mean not racist. I mean, obviously I’m pro trans, trans people exist and should have the same rights and protections as everyone else, but it feels like you see that as a bad thing whereas to me it’s a very obvious good one, so we may struggle.

about ten years ago I did a lot of thinking about trans women and cis women so yes I very much understand the feeling of ?fear? you mean - though in the end I decided that a lot of the fears I had had practical solutions, and some were not practical fears - they were about some indefinable loss of status, or a fear of what happens to what I know as the category ‘women’ if our boundaries start to blur (lord knows we’ve been through enough, etc etc). I’ve never seen any kind of reasonable discussion about it on mumsnet though, it always looks to me like there’s a real desire to pull up the drawbridge and throw boiling oil on outsiders with different views. To be clear, that’s what it looks like to me, I’m sure it doesn’t look like that to you. So maybe everyone’s just too far apart at this point. Dunno what comes after that tho and whatever side of it you’re on, it really doesn’t seem like a win for society to me.

You make so many assumptions about me and my thoughts.

Of course I think trans people should have the same rights and protections everyone else - they already do. They do not, however have the right to use spaces or services set aside for the opposite sex. What rights do you think they are missing?

In case it’s not clear, the only criteria I have for someone being a woman is for them to be female. You seem to be a little confused over that as you are including men with a declared gender identity in the category of woman and have subsumed women to a sub category of our own sex. I’m also confused by your point about chromosomes. Are you suggesting we all need a chromosome test to show if we are male or female?

It sounds odd that people shouted ‘Tranny’ at you in the street - were these people female?? I have a number of friends who are very ‘non conforming to narrow stereotypes of feminity’ and nobody has ever shouted ‘Tranny’ at them in the street - definitely nobody female has ever done that.

This may be largely because women who don’t conform to sex stereotypes look like they are dressing ‘male’ whereas actual men with a female gender identity wear exaggeratedly ‘female’ clothes. So your experience is confusing.

And no, grown police officers upsetting elderly ladies by pretending they don’t know what a woman is and men invading women’s spaces because we pretending no one knows what sex they are is not a win for society.

It would be really nice if we could have a reasonable discussion about this but trans activists tend to resort to abuse and making things up when we try. I think it’s a cover for their lack of a coherent argument as to why women deserve nothing away from men.

Horseebooks · 14/05/2025 17:55

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 14/05/2025 17:40

Maybe nobody implied that you were lying but the uncomfortable truth is that we have to assume that anyone on the internet claiming to be a woman who has been mistaken for a man is lying, because so many people are lying about it these days.

And I never said you can't spot trans people. I think nearly everyone can spot trans people. The point I was making is that it is very difficult for a woman to be mistaken for a man even when she's trying really hard to be mistaken for one (via surgery and testosterone) so it's even less likely that she will be mistaken for one without trying.

In all honesty, the only women I believe when they say they have been mistaken for men are the ones who follow it up with, "But it was no big deal, I just laughed and said I was a woman and they realised straight away that they had made a mistake."

I would assume that anyone who self describes as "cis" for the purposes of their story and claims that this is evidence for why excluding trans women from women's spaces makes all women less safe is telling big fat porkie pies.

Yes. Unfortunately that’s where the gulf seems to be. For me, these things you’re presenting as facts or cultural truths are just beliefs of a specific belief system. Though I don’t think that because they differ from mine you’re a liar, much as it would be comforting to me to do so

BundleBoogie · 14/05/2025 18:00

Horseebooks · 14/05/2025 17:55

Yes. Unfortunately that’s where the gulf seems to be. For me, these things you’re presenting as facts or cultural truths are just beliefs of a specific belief system. Though I don’t think that because they differ from mine you’re a liar, much as it would be comforting to me to do so

It’s not a belief system to say that there are only two sexes and that people can’t change sex though. It’s just a fact. This is the crux of what we are saying.

Can you agree with that at least? If we can find some common ground with that starting point maybe we can move forward in a gentler fashion?

Horseebooks · 14/05/2025 18:01

BundleBoogie · 14/05/2025 17:55

You make so many assumptions about me and my thoughts.

Of course I think trans people should have the same rights and protections everyone else - they already do. They do not, however have the right to use spaces or services set aside for the opposite sex. What rights do you think they are missing?

In case it’s not clear, the only criteria I have for someone being a woman is for them to be female. You seem to be a little confused over that as you are including men with a declared gender identity in the category of woman and have subsumed women to a sub category of our own sex. I’m also confused by your point about chromosomes. Are you suggesting we all need a chromosome test to show if we are male or female?

It sounds odd that people shouted ‘Tranny’ at you in the street - were these people female?? I have a number of friends who are very ‘non conforming to narrow stereotypes of feminity’ and nobody has ever shouted ‘Tranny’ at them in the street - definitely nobody female has ever done that.

This may be largely because women who don’t conform to sex stereotypes look like they are dressing ‘male’ whereas actual men with a female gender identity wear exaggeratedly ‘female’ clothes. So your experience is confusing.

And no, grown police officers upsetting elderly ladies by pretending they don’t know what a woman is and men invading women’s spaces because we pretending no one knows what sex they are is not a win for society.

It would be really nice if we could have a reasonable discussion about this but trans activists tend to resort to abuse and making things up when we try. I think it’s a cover for their lack of a coherent argument as to why women deserve nothing away from men.

You make so many assumptions about me and my thoughts!

FlakyCritic · 14/05/2025 18:02

Horseebooks · 14/05/2025 17:25

nobody ever implied I was lying except you, just now. It went straight to saying I couldn’t spot trans people - I don’t get why that would be the response to someone who’s lying but I don’t get a lot of stuff about the GC position so fair enough.

I don’t mind if people think I’m trans. I will mind if someone comes up to me in a bathroom or something and starts giving me shit about it. And if they do, I will blame that person, and that person specifically.

The 'GC' position is purely and solely that females are humans with needs and rights and we shouldn't be stereotyped.

Not sure what you can't 'get' about that? Unless you agree with gender stereotypes and don't see females as humans with needs and rights.

FlakyCritic · 14/05/2025 18:05

MyOliveHelper · 14/05/2025 17:47

I've found it a big deal personally, because there were always racist overtones to when people either mistook me for a man, or commented on how "masculine" I am. It doesnt help that it's only ever been white women who do it and typically for not looking like them or sometimes, for not sharing their opinions on women's issues.

I'm just a tall, well built, Black woman with a deep voice and I used to have short hair. I'm not butch. I'm not gay. I'm also GC. And it's happened to me.

So 'GC' that you said there was 'research' that women aren't attacked in the ladies by transwomen or made to feel uncomfortable even though there are many, many instances of it happening.

BundleBoogie · 14/05/2025 18:09

Horseebooks · 14/05/2025 18:01

You make so many assumptions about me and my thoughts!

What assumptions have I made? I’ve based my answers on your comments.

Did you see my other comment?

Horseebooks · 14/05/2025 18:17

FlakyCritic · 14/05/2025 18:02

The 'GC' position is purely and solely that females are humans with needs and rights and we shouldn't be stereotyped.

Not sure what you can't 'get' about that? Unless you agree with gender stereotypes and don't see females as humans with needs and rights.

what I don’t get is statements exactly like yours - I said I don’t get the GC thing and you said oh does that mean you don’t see females as humans. Those are….. very different things

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 14/05/2025 18:17

Horseebooks · 14/05/2025 17:55

Yes. Unfortunately that’s where the gulf seems to be. For me, these things you’re presenting as facts or cultural truths are just beliefs of a specific belief system. Though I don’t think that because they differ from mine you’re a liar, much as it would be comforting to me to do so

What beliefs do you think I am presenting as facts?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 14/05/2025 18:18

Horseebooks · 14/05/2025 18:17

what I don’t get is statements exactly like yours - I said I don’t get the GC thing and you said oh does that mean you don’t see females as humans. Those are….. very different things

What is it about "the GC thing" that you don't get?

Horseebooks · 14/05/2025 18:19

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 14/05/2025 18:18

What is it about "the GC thing" that you don't get?

I just said what I don’t get in the message you quoted

FlakyCritic · 14/05/2025 18:19

Horseebooks · 14/05/2025 18:17

what I don’t get is statements exactly like yours - I said I don’t get the GC thing and you said oh does that mean you don’t see females as humans. Those are….. very different things

I outlined what GC stands for. And asked what it is that you don't 'get' about it.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 14/05/2025 18:20

Horseebooks · 14/05/2025 18:19

I just said what I don’t get in the message you quoted

In the message I quoted you said that you said you didn't get the GC thing and someone replied does that mean you don't see female people as human.

Ignore the response for a moment. What did you mean when you said you don't get the GC thing?

FlakyCritic · 14/05/2025 18:21

Horseebooks · 14/05/2025 18:19

I just said what I don’t get in the message you quoted

No, you did not state what you don't 'get', at all. Hence we are both asking you; what exactly is it about the GC stance that you don't get?

Aria999 · 14/05/2025 18:22

Horseebooks · 12/05/2025 20:29

I’ve been mistaken for a trans woman (tall, big shoulders, massive hands). Before you lot all decided you could always tell it was only a couple of times (or it was probably loads of times but nobody cared). Looking forward to loads of fun in bathrooms going forward.

I agree, I can't always tell. Sometimes but not always.

I don't even think they have to be trans, I interacted with a person recently in a public service role where I had no idea. Overweight so no visible Adam's Apple or obvious body shape, an older person with wiry jaw length grey hair and baggy androgynous clothes. I don't think they were trying to present as anything, they just didn't care!

FlakyCritic · 14/05/2025 18:23

Horseebooks · 14/05/2025 18:17

what I don’t get is statements exactly like yours - I said I don’t get the GC thing and you said oh does that mean you don’t see females as humans. Those are….. very different things

What 'statement'? What is it you don't 'get'? You don't seem to want to answer the question.