Changing rooms in pool

[TheSpryGoose]

My sister took her DGS7 and my DS12 swimming in our local leisure centre early this morning.
She was unaware that there were no family changing areas.
There is a female changing area with cubicles and a communal changing space and male changing room with NO cubicles, just one big communal changing space.
She sees a big sign outside the ladies changing area saying that boys over 8 are not allowed in the ladies changing area and must use the mens changing room.
She did not feel comfortable allowing my prepubescent son to change in a room alone with grown men and so did a check of the ladies changing room to make sure there was no one in the communal area, got him to change in a cubicle while she waited outside it and let him know when it was ok to come out to go in the pool.
I completely understand not allowing boys over a certain age in a communal changing room (and vice versa) but am I unreasonable in thinking that expecting children aged as young as nine to change unsupervised in a male communal changing room is a massive safeguarding issue?
They should surely work out a way to create a family change area?
To be honest, I have only recently started letting my son use the male toilets on his own and depending on where we are and how busy it is, I will wait outside for him and call out ‘I’m waiting out here!’ as he goes in.

I have definitely been stared at by boys in the women's changing rooms. I'm old and I don't care but they are certainly looking. As I say, if I think they are 10-ish then I may challenge the parents. A girl once told e that her brother having a shower in the women's changing room was 10 "but he's my little brother!".

And that’s exactly what all the 11 and 12 year old girls’ parents now think when they see your son - that he’s the weirdo paedo who wants to see girls getting changed. Well done OP. Well done. Your kids the perv.

He’s an adult now and has turned out just fine. Like I said up thread, by 12 he was going swimming with his mates so it wasn’t an issue. When he was younger it was more public toilets that were an issue, I wouldn’t let him in the men’s alone, it was never raised as an issue that I’d rush him in the women’s.
When I met my now husband he had the same problem being a single dad to a little girl and her not wanting to go into the men’s toilets but to little to go in the women’s alone.
I can understand why op did what she did and swimming pools should really come up with a solution and provide a third area. It’s not as dangerous when there’s a group going in together, that feels different to me than a lone child.

@stichguru
it isn’t just about grown women and prepubescent boys. It’s also about their female classmates who absolutely will be wanting privacy at 8+.

The usual solution is that the person or people go to the pool wearing their swimsuit.

then they can just take layers off without having to get actually naked and this can be done at the poolside if necessary.

when they come out, everyone puts on a big towelling poncho and goes home wet.

that’s what happened during Covid.

alternatively as he has adhd and autism possibly the pool have a disabled changing? Most twelve year old boys would refuse to go in the women’s changing so I assume he is significantly delayed/impaired.

a - why would a 12 y/o boy 'probably' not see girls his own age and older 'in a sexual way?' Most 12 year old boys have some sexual feelings - who does you think he would he see in a sexual way, if you're ruling every girl and woman of his age or older out?

b - why would a 12 year old 'probably find changing under a towel' harder than a woman, when men only have to worry about the towel covering their waist, not more of their body? Surely it's vastly easier for them, not harder?

c - at what point does a 12 year old become 'totally different' to a 14 year old?
If it's 12 and 11 months versus 14 and 1 month, is it just 'very different?' How
about 12 vs 13, is that just 'different.'? What magically happens in those few months to make it a completely different situation?

If a few months is enough to make the situation "totally different" then why doesn't that apply for the FOUR YEARS between the age he was 'supposed' to be in the men's at 8? Does time work differently at different ages?

And no idea why you're saying the poster thinks 'sod anyone who isn't her,' when the whole point is that the OP is the individualistic one - prioritising the feelings of her ONE son over those of every single other girl and woman (correctly) using the right changing room.

YOU WOULD HAVE MADE A COMPLAINT!? This is why every young person I (reluctantly) have to manage seems to be spoilt, weak, with no preparation for the real world and coincidentally never seem to to pass their probation. I and everyone I know got changed in their respective sex changing rooms from about 8 years old. No ill effects. Life is fairly limited if you always think "what if"

That's really inappropriate. It would be uncomfortable for me and my DD who is 11. At 12, he should be old enough to be able to get changed quickly in the male area alone.

I don't know the answer to this any better than you do.
But how many cases of child SA have occurred in men's swimming pool changing rooms v the number of times boys have used men's swimming pool changing rooms without adult supervision?

So presumably ALL weaker males should avoid the men's and use the women's instead?

Boys under 18, men over 65, disabled men, short and/or skinny men...

A sense of proportion needs to be kept; and not a mindset that automatically assumes that women and girls simply don't matter.

I think the whole toilets/changing room stuff needs to be better thought out.

I don't have a son but feel very strongly that young boys should not be going into public toilets or changing rooms that men are using....it's uncomfortable for both the men and the boys especially in relation to the urinals in public loos, and the risks for SA especially indecent exposure are so high.
And goodness knows why in this day and age somewhere doesn't have individual cubicles....ridiculous!
Everywhere should have family changing options and thought it did tbh.

We have the issue that DD's if out with DH and he needs the toilet, have to go into the disabled toilet with him as standing outside the disabled or men's toilets in a public place is often too risky safety wise.
At least nowadays there are usually disabled toilets for any gender parent to use with their child, but it's still not ideal.
DH will tell DD's to face the other way, cover their ears etc but eldest has just turned 8 and it's abit embarrassing and not ideal tbh if we have to take her in with us, but better that than risk her safety waiting outside on her own.

Wheras when I'm out with her, usually ladies toilets have separate cubicles and no men using urinals, so she can stand in the sink area and wait for me safely.

Not sure how everyone else conquers this issue.....

It really isn't.

And at what age would it be OK for him to change in front of other men? 14? 16? Come on.

Ah yes, the old "best not risk it" mentality.

He might be fine in job interviews but there is a risk he won't get it so best not try

He might pass his driving test first time but there's a risk he won't so just don't learn eh?

He could we be very intelligent but there's a risk he might get a D in Biology. Best not got to school.

Can you see why this attitude might be fairly terrible for children? Set a good example, be a parent

This. My son turns 8 soon and will be expected to change alone in the men's changing-room. As there are some dubious characters using our leisure centre (I've witnessed some disturbing vendor behaviour in the gym and other facilities at times from some of the male users), he will be getting changed in the car park under a dry-robe. Tbh it will probably be preferable to the packed changing rooms, which are complete mayhem at swimming lesson times.

And this is not based on some abstract threat from males unspecified, but having witnessed some very poor behaviour from some males that makes me think I don't want my son around them unsupervised.

But I agree going in the female changing room at 8+ is not really an option. They do start noticing things at that age.

Of course if your son has special needs and cannot cope on his own that’s a different situation but you dropped that in later so without that information it sounds really inappropriate.

I have an 8 year old and he’s gone to the toilets on his own for over a year now - was very conscious himself that he shouldn’t come to the toilets with me and his sister. In this situation I’d have sent him into the male changing room as neither of my kids would want to change together - my daughter would be just as horrified (though actually wouldn’t change in front of anyone at this age, she’s in her massively embarrassed by everything phase). However it sounds like this place doesn’t offer a space that works for you so you should complain or just go elsewhere.

There should be a family changing options.

8 is very young for a boy to go into a changing room alone with adult men. But it is not appropriate for a 12 year old boy to be a female changing room.

Like I’ve said repeatedly, I care very much about the safety of women and girls. I also care deeply about the safety of all children, op shouldn’t have been put in this position, there should have to be a safe alternative for lone boys to get changed. You believe that boys are fine to go in a changing room alone, I do not. We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Erm.. He is an adult now, he went to school, passed his exams, has a job and drives a car. How arrogant are you to suggest I’m a shitty parent just because I disagree with your views.

Why would males of various ages be uncomfortable using facilities designed for use by males of all ages except the very littlest ones?

All the men using urinals were themselves once boys using urinals. Males are socialised that way from a young age to treat them as just a mundane fact of life.

Also, a lot of women on here seem to assume that men dance around naked, artistically doing exhibitionist performative willy windmills when using urinals. On the contrary, they stand facing the wall with their whole bodies naturally shielding their penises from anybody else seeing them. The MN Urinal Ballet with men skipping and high-kicking merrily across the floor that some people imagine is simply not a thing in the slightest.

There is a difference between trying things, suffering a setback and keeping going, and potentially being the victim of a sexual assault. The latter is not a learning experience nor an opportunity for personal growth.

He's12! My children didn't go in other sex changing rooms from much younger.

There’s a tricky period for opposite sex parents and children being out together but it was much earlier for us. If my husband took my daughter out or I took my son out around 5/6 it was always a bit tricky to work out which bathroom made sense but after that everyone just went to the appropriate one for their body and then we carried on with our day. The in between time when children ‘sometimes’ needed help washing their hands or buttoning something or whatever was tricky for sure.

I can’t imagine any scenario where a 12 year old girl would walk into the men’s changing room if this whole story was reversed so it’s equally incorrect for your son.

But it's like 'the other issue' that is widely discussed on MN.

It all comes down to two starkly conflicting needs or desires; one group simply cannot have their way in somebody else's labelled facility without forcing the other group to shut up and give up theirs (that is specifically set aside for them) .

At 12? Even if just turned 12 he is old enough to go swimming by himself, go to the shops and use a mens loo by himself? We are all naturally very protective of our children and always have that 'what if' worries in the back of our minds but you are doing him no favours treating him like a small child.

But there wasn't a family space. So yabu. As a mother of a young daughter I'd be horrified if a parent brought a boy over the age of 8 into the ladies changing rooms. The rules are there for a reason. If he didn't feel comfortable changing in the mens, think how uncomfortable a poor girl would feel if they came in and saw a boy in there!!!