Changing rooms in pool

[TheSpryGoose]

My sister took her DGS7 and my DS12 swimming in our local leisure centre early this morning.
She was unaware that there were no family changing areas.
There is a female changing area with cubicles and a communal changing space and male changing room with NO cubicles, just one big communal changing space.
She sees a big sign outside the ladies changing area saying that boys over 8 are not allowed in the ladies changing area and must use the mens changing room.
She did not feel comfortable allowing my prepubescent son to change in a room alone with grown men and so did a check of the ladies changing room to make sure there was no one in the communal area, got him to change in a cubicle while she waited outside it and let him know when it was ok to come out to go in the pool.
I completely understand not allowing boys over a certain age in a communal changing room (and vice versa) but am I unreasonable in thinking that expecting children aged as young as nine to change unsupervised in a male communal changing room is a massive safeguarding issue?
They should surely work out a way to create a family change area?
To be honest, I have only recently started letting my son use the male toilets on his own and depending on where we are and how busy it is, I will wait outside for him and call out ‘I’m waiting out here!’ as he goes in.

I can only go on my own experiences and once my son got to secondary school age he didn’t go swimming with me anymore, just his group of friends which was fine because there were loads of them.
Just to be clear I fully agree men shouldn’t be in women’s areas, and boys shouldn’t really have to either. But it’s absurd to think a boy of 8 isn’t at danger in a room full of men alone.
There should be family changing areas for this situation and if not I understand why op discreetly used the cubicle she chose.

But her son was 12 not 8

But it’s absurd to think a boy of 8 isn’t at danger in a room full of men alone.

No, it's absurd to assume that he is in danger.

Yep because if men have shown us anything throughout history it’s that they’re never dangerous to those weaker than them 🙄

So let me get this clear: you're happy to tar all men in swimming pool changing rooms with the same brush of being paedophiles?

In a cubicle!

If there wasn't anyone in the women's communal area at 8.50 then it's doubtful there would have been many in the men's, either.

How about when they came out of the pool and needed to changed again, was it empty then too? Or were there women in there who didn't want a near-teenager in there with them?

What would your sister have done if women/girls walked in while your DS was changing? Made him sit in the cubicle for ten minutes until they'd finished?

Presumably there were toilet cubicles in the leisure centre?
Why couldn't they have changed in there?

You and your sister are ridiculously overprotective. Do you think many peodophiles are prowling local leisure centres at 8.50am on the off chance a child comes into the changing room alone?

If he's not old enough to get changed himself at 12, when will he be? I would understand feeling cautious if he were 9, but he's half as old as the maximum age again, ffs.

The height of arrogance to see a sign and instead of thinking of an alternative (going home, changing in the car, changing in a toilet cubicle, putting trunks on over underpants and then pulling them out from underneath), just deciding 'Oh that applies to everyone else, not me and my precious coddled nephew/son.'

Hang on so
A boy who probably doesn't even think of you in a sexual way, possibly seeing you naked if you aren't adept at changing under a towel if you want to, means you "forgo your dignity and privacy".

But a child who probably finds changing under a towel harder, being seen by a man who certain does have the capacity to think of that child in a sexual way if he so chooses, doesn't "forego his dignity and privacy".

Basically sod everyone who isn't you! (totally different if we were talking about a 14 or 15 year old obviously, but we aren't.)

You keep talking about your ‘pre-pubescent’ and ‘young’ son as if he’s the only one that matters. And having him walk in to a changing room which says no over 8 boys on the door, thereby teaching him he can do whatever he wants.

he is 12! 12 years old in secondary. 4 years over the age where the sporting bodies have decided it isn’t appropriate for people not to use the correct sex changing facilities.

imagine if girls from his school has been in there. Your son might be pre-pubescent but it is very unlikely that any of his female classmates would be. Maybe think about them.

but also him. He must be absolutely mortified to being babied like this? If he had been spotted by anyone from his school coming out of the girls changing room he would have been a laughing stock. Ironically, it is him that would have been called a p* if he’d been caught.

babying your kids really really really doesn’t help them in the long term.

As I said - at my gym/pool boys over 7 are expected to use the male facilities. I've never heard of a problem with that.

Same with my 9 year old DS . Never had any issue at all. When 7-8 he changed with his older brother 11-12 . Now he’s fine on his own.

No way should a 12 year old boy be in the ladies! But yes a family area or cubicles in the men’s would be better, something to write to the leisure centre about

I’m not tarring all men as pedophiles im
explaining why I wouldn’t let a child into a space like a changing room alone.. Yes he’d probably be fine but you can’t tell so I wouldn’t risk it. Just like I don’t think all men are rapists yet I wouldn’t walk through a park on my own late at night. You may live in a world where sexual assault hasn’t affected how you see the world, I live in a different world so yeah, there is no way on earth my son would be put at risk.

And how exactly are we meant to know which ones are the paedophiles? Do they wear a sign?

In some settings you'd be told to take your son out pretty sharpish.

But essentially you are, and you're teaching him to do this too.
Just because it's affected you doesn't increase the (very very slim) likelihood that it will happen to him.

I’ve just coached swim club tonight. My group is ages 8-12. About two thirds of the parents drop and go. The other third chat/look on phone/occasionally glance at pool in spectator area. None of them would dream of going in the changing area or waiting poolside with a towel held out for their child, like in the stages. Not a single kid went in the ‘wrong’ changing room. In fact, it would have been ridiculous.

a poster up thread has already pointed out that kids who do extra curricular type stuff are just so far ahead generally of those who dont.

just giving you an idea op of what’s normal and how far removed you are treating your son.

How did your sister know that the men's was "a changing room with NO cubicles, just one big communal changing space"?
Did she go in and have a good look round?
Because that's also inappropriate.

A family change area is a good idea IMO and would be useful for DC who would perhaps struggle on their own (for example ND and would fail to focus on the task).

But tbh I am astonished that your (if NT, you don't say) 12 yo is even willing to change in the women’s ch rooms. It’s utterly inappropriate, even in a cubicle. What if a 12yo girl from his school was in there? My DS2 stopped wanting to come into the women's rooms with me at about 6-7yo and went in with his then 11yo brother instead.

Agree 12yo is very late indeed to be using the men’s loos fir the first time.

I see others echo my views.

ETA: I might have said something to your sister @TheSpryGoose if I were there. I usually err in the wrong direction (ie I think a DC is 8/9 when they are 10) – I cannot imagine that your 12yo appears to be 7.

Absolutely this and it was only up until a couple of weeks ago women were told to STFU and called bigots for objecting to grown men coming in to their single sex spaces.

it’s only ever on here I seem to read about pools without family friendly change facilities. Every pool I went to with my sons when they were young, there was either a changing village and/or a number of mixed sex family rooms. Mine wouldn’t have tolerated going into a girls changing room, they’d have been embarrassed as well as the girls and women

I don't know - I see I am in the minority here. I guess my thought is what is going through the person's mind when they see a body of the opposite sex. From conversations I have had with my 12 year old, if there were ladies not covered up, I don't think he would even notice, he'd probably be thinking about changing and going to have fun a quickly as he could! However we all know there are men out there who would LIKE, ENJOY looking at his body. However also I can see that a woman doesn't know that he isn't thinking that, or could have been raped or something by a young man (not actually a 12 year old) but a semi changing male body could still bring back memories. Just stick to pools with mixed sex cubicles or take his dad too seems easier...

Yabvu. He is a boy and old enough to change independently and behave sensibly (eg not need adult supervision telling him not to run on wet floors/stare etc). He should have been in the mens.

My 8yo would be absolutely mortified if i suggested he come in the womens, he would not want to change in front of teenage girls etc.

There are people who bring older boys into the ladies at my leisure centre and Ive complained many times, its absolutely unfair on the girls.

This is mumsnet remember, where half the female posters have visited all the mens changing rooms and public toilets in their area, yet apparently they’re not pervy weirdos.

You are teaching your son that he's entitled to put girls at risk, and that his wishes and need for safety trump theirs. This is at the crux of how men grow up thinking their are entitled to mistreat women.

I suspect they wouldn't try to pull that stunt at my leisure centre - never seen it anyway. I'm sorry your complaints aren't listened to.